OT Bradley Manning

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On 12/24/2010 10:28 AM, Neil Brooks wrote:

I have no idea where you got that idea. I do want truly free markets. This means that NO one should interfere in market action - individual, corporate, or government - until/unless there is evidence of fraud or force ... which would on its face make markets not free.

My preference would have been to keep the US completely out of world affairs until/unless there was a threat *to* the US. That horse, however, long ago fled the barn. The fact is that from TR forward, the US has had an interventionist foreign policy. Demanding we butt out now is simply not realistic. But - as I said - even a casual examination of our history shows far, far more benefit to the rest of the planet than downside. But the Devlin-esque Equivocators have a really hard time with that. They come from a position of "If it's not perfect, it's no good." Their world is black, white, simple, and unambiguous. It is also completely disconnected from Reality.

It is proper to intervene in markets when there is evidence of fraud, force, or threat. It is improper to intervene because some hang-wringing peddler of phony Social Justice (tm) wants to use government itself to commit the act of fraud to forcefully redistribute wealth.
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Neil Brooks wrote:

In the case of Venezula, the "nuts" screw the "haves."
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I really would wish that the "US would withdraw from the world state" as it seems that whenever you get involved you make matters a lot worse due to the greed and ambitions of many of your leaders.
As for "so that people like you could get a taste of what the planet would feel like with people of conviction and genuine interest in liberty might feel like." Do you really think that the leaders of your country are really concerned about that?
They are not interested in "liberty" per-se, they are only interested in the "fast buck" that they can make from selling arms, food etc and will only step in to protect those interests - your participation in two world wars [late at that], Korea, Vietnam, the first Gulf war and the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq are proof of that.
If America really believes in *true* liberty, why has it not interfered in Russian, Chinese and North Korean affairs (to name a few) to "liberate" them?
I do live in a supposedly "free" [1] country, and that country was 'free' and winning wars long before America was founded - and in fact, the birth of the American dream was one of the few wars in history that America has won - think about it.
As for "American blood and treasure made it possible" America has gained far more "treasure" from her participation than it has ever expended (countries have been made to pay dearly) and as for the spilling of American blood - again far more innocent blood has been spilled by non-Americans by Americans - again think about the Nuclear bombs, carpet bombing, cluster bombing, agent orange and the indiscriminate use of weapons on civilian populations - along with the American ideology that any non-American is a nonentity.
[1] Made far more George Orwellian and dangerous by the knee jerk reactions of one of the dumbest presidents you have ever had - along with the poodle-like idolatry of one my countries leaders of that lying president and the so-called "American dream".
Good night and have a pleasant Christmas - unlike many in America and the world.
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On 12/24/2010 1:28 PM, Disbelief wrote:

1) I hope you get your wish.
2) It is not our leaders that define us, but our ideals. The fact that we are sometimes inconsistent with those ideals simply means we're human, not that our ideals are bad.
3) America's gain in treasure was (mostly) done honestly and honorably not at the expense of others.
4) Excepting the mentally and physically handicapped and those facing medical issues not of their own making, the vast majority of Westerners that will not have a pleasant evening tonight will be because of self-induced circumstances. The 3rd and emerging world that has a bad night tonight will be because they've embraced tribalism, theocracy, and collectivism in their various forms (rather than markets, capitalism, and personal liberty) and are thus getting Just Deserts.
Like I said, I hope you get your wish. I'd like to see the US withdraw from the military, diplomatic, AND humanitarian sphere around the world, and never again offer a dime of solace, or a drop of blood. It would be good to watch the planet struggle with the many threats around the world (China, Russia, militant Islam, AIDs epidemics, tribal slaughter, ethic cleansing, and so forth) without the good old Red, White, And Blue to beg for help. Perhaps then you might learn some manners and say "Thank You" for the help you've received rather than howling about how bad it all is.
BTW, I speak as a naturalized US citizen. I wasn't born here, and English was my second written/read language. I've lived in Europe and done business there and in Asia. You aren't "Disbelieving", you're Delusional.
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Disbelief wrote:

Heh! Keep believing that. America is the oldest democracy in the world (with the possible exception of the Isle of Man).
I'll give you that American, India (the largest democracy in the world), and other spots are the inheritors of the English Common Law and that shaped our country well.
But countries with "freedom?" and "democracy?" well, we're the one with the longest history and tradition.

Gives me goose-bumps. Nothing beats the smell of Napalm in the morning.
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Disbelief wrote:

I can't imagine what comic book you're reading.
The United States has not charged Assange with anything nor has it asked that he be extradited to the US.
Nor will it.
Assange will get a pass from the US for the simple reason that any criminal offense the USA can concoct to sanction Assange would apply equally well to the NY Times. Assange did not steal these communications nor is there any intimation he participated in any way with their theft. He merely publicized them.
Same as the New York Times.
Further, as to your (erroneous) assertion that Palin demands the unlawful execution of Assange, I should point out that killing a terrorist is not unlawful. That said, what she ACTUALLY said, in contradistinction to your claim, was:
"Why was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al Qaeda and Taliban leaders?"
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/11/does-palin-want-to-whack-assange.html
Lastly, you claim "hypocrisy" as if that's a bad thing. Hypocrisy gets a bad rap.
Think football or baseball coach. If the coach could pitch or pass as well as the player he's instructing, he'd be on the field making the big bucks!
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HeyBub wrote:

since signing a book deal, how is he any different than a common fence (accepting stolen goods for personal gain in reselling)?
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chaniarts wrote:

A good point. Obscure, but a good point nevertheless.
Still, I'd remind you many politicians have written books...
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<...snipped...>

So you would have no sympathy for an American soldier during the revolution who had been captured by the British? Or (for the sake of argument) a British subject who was sympathetic to the Americans and imprisoned for publishing information detrimental to the British government?
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snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org says...

I have no sympathy for Benedict Arnold.
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J. Clarke wrote:

But if Benedict Arnold had betrayed the English rather than the American cause, would you then still consider him to be a traitor *OR* would you call him a hero of the American cause?
Either way, he his both a traitor and a hero - much like today's so called "terrorists" wouldn't you agree?
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I have lots. He started out as a traitor to his king and was the most effective treasonous military leader. (unlike some who were worshiped despite never having won any battle of consequence and having to be rescued by the French, of all people, at Yorktown.)
He then recanted his treason and became a loyal subject again, after realizing what a bunch of ungrateful scumbags his fellow traitors were.
Luigi
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On 12/23/2010 4:45 PM, Larry W wrote:

I would have "sympathy" because I share their view of liberty. I would not consider them oppressed victims as the Manning defenders do for him.
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Larry W wrote:

Uh, sympathy? Yes. But them's the breaks. Lincoln imprisoned many who published articles sympathetic to the South.
Consider also the "Alien & Sedition Acts"
Pay attention:
"And be it further enacted, Penalty on libelling the government That if any person shall write, print, utter or publish, or shall cause or procure to be written, printed, uttered or published, or shall knowingly and willingly assist or aid in writing, printing, uttering or publishing any false, scandalous and malicious writing or writings against the government of the United States, or either house of the Congress of the United States, or the President of the United States, with intent to defame the said government, or either house of the said Congress, or the said President, or to bring them, or either of them, into contempt or disrepute; or to excite against them, or either or any of them, the hatred of the good people of the United States, or to stir up sedition within the United States, or to excite any unlawful combinations therein, for opposing or resisting any law of the United States, or any act of the President of the United States, done in pursuance of any such law, or of the powers in him vested by the constitution of the United States, or to resist, oppose, or defeat any such law or act, or to aid, encourage or abet any hostile designs of any foreign nation against the United States, their people or government, then such person, being thereof convicted before any court of the United States having jurisdiction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars, and by imprisonment not exceeding two years."
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On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:26:40 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

Yep. Most folks don't realize what the US would look like if Jefferson hadn't won the next election.
Taxation without representation? Check out the Whiskey Rebellion. That's the first time the revolution spun in its grave :-).
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snipped-for-privacy@mtavirgin.net says...

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2010/12/typical-day-for-pfc-bradley-manning.html He wouldn't be in that cell if he hadn't blabbed classified information.
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http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2010/12/typical-day-for-pfc-bradley-manning.html
The prison is properly run, but they should take away the TV. This is the consequence of breaking laws. He could have prevented this.
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http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2010/12/typical-day-for-pfc-bradley-manning.html
Well, that was an easy troll. Ford fender?
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If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...


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On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 01:12:15 -0000, "Tim W"

son-of-a-bitch is still breathing!
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On 12/23/2010 11:34 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

bleed their little hearts out together.
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