OT: BP - The tip of the iceberg

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On 6/21/2010 12:55 AM, Lobby Dosser wrote:

Figure what out?

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On 6/16/2010 5:31 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

you can answer one question. Once you capture the CO2, what are you going to do with it?
As a chemist and per government papers I received from Senator Lugar there are a couple of solutions:
1. Put it into the depths of the ocean which per the greenhousers is already increasing in acid.
2. Store it as a compressed liquid, which is an ecological disaster in itself. Remember the lake in Africa that turned over releasing CO2. The 100% kill zone for that event was hundreds of square miles around the lake.
3. Store it as a salt, (Sodium, Calcium, other metal) per our environmental laws these are hazardous waste and must be treated as such. Which would required to be monitoring for hundreds of years in the future.
For every 12 ton of carbon burned, 44 tons of CO2 will be produced, or if captured as a salt, for every 12 tons of carbon burned over 100 tons of salts will be produced (if it is run through a drying process, if it leaves the plant wet or as a liquid the numbers go up significantly)
To put it another way for every 12 rail cars of carbon going into the plant, 100 rail cars of waste will be coming out.
As I remember a couple of years ago National Geographics said there was about 8 billion tons of coal burned ever year.
That will require one mammoth hazardous waste storage site.
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"Keith Nuttle" wrote:

All of which demonstrates the necessity of getting off fossil based fuels.
And if we don't get off our collective rear ends and get busy developing renewable energy sources, the Chinese are going to eat our lunch.
To illustrate the point, anybody catch the ABC evening news?
Guy from Jersey couldn't get funding in the USA to build his manufacturing facility.
The Chinese welcomed him with open arms and MONEY.
Lew
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On 6/16/2010 10:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Uh, how is the development of "renewable energy sources" going to prevent China from "eating our lunch"?

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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Whale oil for lighting is a "renewable energy source."
Kerosene, however, proved to be (much) cheaper, more versatile, easier to store, transport, and use than whale oil. Kerosene was also not susceptible to the vagaries of the whaling season.
All of these reasons, except maybe the whaling season, are still in play when comparing other "renewable" energy sources with petroleum and coal.

To illustrate another point, does anybody watch ABC News?
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMgmail.com says...

With a very small human population.
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I'd look at combining it with H (catalytically?) and using it as a feedstock for plastics production.
I wonder how much energy it takes to break the C from the O2?
scott
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On Jun 17, 10:02am, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

More energy than was released when it got put there. TANSTAAFL.
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I'm not bothering with attributes to quotes...

1) the ethylene-polyethylene process is reversible. This means that there is an untapped resource for fuel we're just burying in the ground where it will take forever to degrade/decompose.
2) the Fischer-Tropsh process has been used to make fuel from "almost nothing" (syngas) since before WW1. Apartheid South Africa was cut off from world crude feedstocks and make (literally) all its POL this way. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer_Tropsch
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What good does that do? It takes more energy to reverse the process than you get out of it. Might just as well bury money.

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Having family members who worked in constructing these plants introduced me to one of the contractors who proudly described his "in-field modification" of some piece of piping that wouldn't fit. Seems it involved a large wrench being used as a hammer to bend something... you know, precision engineering. <shudder>
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Right. The problems are political. Drill baby drill.

That's been the mantra of the Chicken Little society for a century.
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:28:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Says the ostrich with its head in the sand :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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No, I know what the alternative to energy is. Poverty.
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Huh? If nukes generated 100% of our electricity it wouldn't make a dent in our need for oil.

Yep. ...and storage sucks.

That still doesn't solve the transportation needs.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You best tell him why.
Almost all of the oil, both domestic and imported, is used for transportation. Some is used for heating, lubricants, and plastics, but the amount so used is minuscule.
There are none, or almost none, oil-fired power plants.
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Keith Nuttle wrote:

Oil is used in almost everything from aspirin to band saw bearings, not just an efficient source of energy.

Batteries come to mind...

Not easy to make a cell phone or paint a bridge with air, or build a battery out of sun light either. The baby will be drilling for oil for all foreseeable future, so might as well drill on land, or shallow water where it's safest.
Most of the time it will be blowing too hard

Nothing wrong with wind power or sun power other than it doesn't work very well compared to oil. When it does, or if it does, no laws will be needed to force anyone to use it, just like no laws are needed to force people to use oil today...

But, we don't need to accept facts that are not facts. Right now, oil is abundant and efficient source of energy, among a few million other nice things, so, drill baby drill is the mantra.
--
Jack
Got Change: Global Warming ======> Global Fraud!
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The best solution is when you stop using this fuel source you seem to dislike, so much.
When you start using another one, let us know how you did it and how no petroleum was used to produce it or maintain it.
The greenwashing get a little sickening with the eco-guessing crowd. They don't like nuclear waste or hydro-electric dam dangers or the site of wind turbines or solar panels using our our land areas or petroleum spills or the high CO2 emmisions and food stealing of biofuels.
Back to my 102" plasma display TV in my 68 degree living room, under my electric blanket in my massaging recliner...LOL
Most of us agree with you but solutions are already been being worked on for 30-40 years. Well at least some of us have. Shit happens as result of our greed and laziness.
wrote in message

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GROVER wrote:

I have an idea, lets drill on land... drill baby drill.
--
Jack
Somewhere In Kenya, a Village is Missing it's IDIOT!
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Really?
I've seen dogs piss in their food dish, cats throw up in their food dish and beds. Some birds build their nests with bird shit.
Man might be the only creature that makes huge efforts to keep his nest clean, in fact, I'm pretty sure of it.
--
Jack
Got Change: And the Change SUCKS!
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