OT: Blacktop vs Concrete

[PDQ]

No matter how you cook it, blacktop will grow ruts and holes from where = you park or drive.

I've had both and concrete is better even if it is 2-3 times more = expensive.

Preparation is key:

1. 6-8 inches of compacted "B" gravel.
2. 6 inches of class "B" well aerated concrete
3. Rebar to keep sections from riding up/down with the weather.
4. Fencing (cannot remember the correct appellation) for strength.

Properly laid, it will not even spall.

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PDQ

4500 sq=20 | ft of surface). In the past, I believe it was true that concrete had = an=20 | initial higher up-front cost, but involved less maintenance over the = long=20 | run, however I am not sure if this is still true. I am waiting for = the=20 | concrete guy to stop by and give a quote - but thought I would pose = the=20 | question here as to the benefits of either for those of you that may = have=20 | had this done recently. |=20 | Thanks in advance. |=20 | George=20 |=20 |

[George Gibeau]

Greetings,

We are looking into getting our driveway paved - it is currently chat (it runs to our house and connects with my shop - so there is my woodworking tie-in ;-)), and I was wondering what the pros and cons are of blacktop-vs-concrete. I have a few quotes for blacktop, and it ranges from about $4900 for 2" of material vs $6100 for 3" of material (this includes all prep, grading, underlayment material, waste removal, etc. on ~ 4500 sq ft of surface). In the past, I believe it was true that concrete had an initial higher up-front cost, but involved less maintenance over the long run, however I am not sure if this is still true. I am waiting for the concrete guy to stop by and give a quote - but thought I would pose the question here as to the benefits of either for those of you that may have had this done recently.

Thanks in advance.

George

[Roy Smith]

I did paving stones. I had a contractor do the prep work of excavating and putting in the gravel foundation, and had several palettes of 6" x 9" pavers (about 700 sq ft worth) delivered to my yard. I laid the pavers myself in a herringbone pattern, edged with 6" x 6" blocks on the edges. The fun part was cutting miters in the edging blocks at the corners, and where the sidewalk meets the driveway at an oblique angle; did all that with a diamond blade in one of those $99 Makita portable table-top saws.

It was a lot of work, and cost a bit more than asphalt, but it really looks beautiful.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Well done concrete will last a hundred years or more with no maintenance.

My blacktop driveway was put in when the house was built 27 years ago. While still in good shape, I've had to fill a couple of cracks. It is a softer material and one summer day I drove the car up on ramps and it left indents on it. People say you should apply sealer, but I've never bothered as it seems to do little but add a black color and makes you sweat a lot putting it on. There are houses built just after mine and they used a cheap contractor. About half the houses have already replaced their blacktop. Prep and material is important based on the differences I see.

IMO, concrete is much nicer looking. It is not as hot in the summer

[Lyndell Thompson]

George, Been thru this loop with in the last year. There is no good answer. But here are some points. 1. Concrete will be more level (if poured properly). 2. Concrete will be stronger if poured proper. 3. Asphalt almost always will be less expensive. 4. Concrete will require a sealing coat every two years or so for maximum life. 5. Asphalt will require a sealcoat for durability and good looks every one to two years. 6. A good quality base will be almost indentical for either. 7. If you are on a steep hill like me, and the asphalt is laid in hot weather, it may thin out (even with the best of contractors) and require a second layer to be blended in to maintain proper thickness. 8. If on a steep hill in any weather, the concrete men will work themselves to death to get a good job. 9. If a vehicle leaks a little oil.........the blacktop show it less than concrete.

1. If a water or cable line has to be installed later....the asphalt cuts a little easier than a thick concrete slab. I could bore you to death with things I considered but, there is no right or wrong answer. Your budget and imagination and abilitiy to to obtain that "right" contractor , or to do it yourself are the only limits you will encounter.

P.S. If you must know...........I stubbed in several utilties myself around our house, then hired a concrete contractor to pour exposed aggregate turnaround area @the house (I couldn't get enough friends together to ensure it was poured proper). I then hired a paving contrator to do the driveway and sideroad to workshop. I elected to do the tearout of dirt and building of base myself as I have a tractor and access to dump truck and a guy that wanted the dirt. All this was just sheer luck and a window of opportunity. It all looks nice and I am satisfied with all of it. I have both and still can't tell you which I like best. The concrete looks nicer but the paving is more cost effective. New Albany, IN area. Good luck Lyndell

[Ron Truitt]

I did an asphalt drive in Colorado about 5 years ago and the asphalt was well below what concrete would have cost me.

Another asphalt advantage for the climate there was the heat generated by the asphalt on a sunny day. This helped melt snow faster.

It does need to be sealed in 6 mo. to a year though which will prolong its life.

At least that is what the asphalt guy told me. The cost at that time and place was $50 per foot for a 100 foot drive.

RonT

[Edwin Pawlowski]

What???????? In my 59 years, I've yet to see anyone seal their sidewalk or drive and some go back to 50 years before my time.

[Lew Hodgett]

COST:

Compared to concrete, black top is dirt cheap.

If you lay concrete, you need to provide some compacted fill to insure drainage, at leat 6" of concrete complete with mesh (Looks like fencing).

If done right, the concrete is good for at least 20 years, pick a number for the black top.

How long to you plan to live there?

Lew

[Al Miller]

Concrete if done right will outlast any blacktop, bar none. You are looking at 56 cubic yards of concrete (3 1/2" thick) which will cost more then blackstuff but will last over 100 years and no maintenance. Well, wash it off once in a while.

If the ground is firm and has no settling, you won't need rebar or wiremesh, BUT you do need expansion joints and control joints every 12' in both directions to control any cracking from expansion and contraction. Also you will want a 5 sack mix (5 bags of cement per cy of mix). Some contractors use 4 sack mix which loses strength in time and will crack more. More money for them! A good respectable contractor can give you all the info you need. Check out his other jobs and see what his customers say about the work.

Good luck, Al in WA

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Where do you live that it will only last 20 years? There are acres of concrete in the cities that is will over 50 years and still doing just fine and will probably another 50 or more.

[Will]

Not to mention all those roman aqueducts , bridges and coliseums. A little tatty after a couple of thousand years -- but still...

[Lew Hodgett]

That comment was based on living far too many years in the "rust belt", AKA: Northern Ohio.

You would be amazed what road salt, brought in by a vehicle, can do to a concrete driveway, especially if you leave your car outside for the winter.

Lew

[Mark & Juanita]

One thing to consider in addition to what others have stated: If you live in a very warm climate, asphalt has a tendency to stick to shoes and get tracked into the house and onto carpets. Concrete stays in the driveway, period.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Kim]

Lots of broken driveways, walkways and patios in the Bay Area, many within

20 years. Combination of poor workmanship and cheap material, expansive soil and earthquakes. I've also seen concrete cracked within couple of days due to contractor cutting too many corners.

Now if we had those Roman contractors our driveways would still be in good condition after 2,000 years.

[Patriarch]

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:Gx9Xd.17625$ [e-mail]:

No idea where the OP lives. That makes a difference.

In areas with seismic issues, or expansive soils, or drainage issues, or tree roots, or other such conditions, even the best concrete work _may_ have to be redone. The economics of '25 years down the road' are pretty meaningless in some cases.

Put in what you want to live with, and can afford. Be happy.

Patriarch, owner of a paver driveway & patios.

[Fly-by-Night CC]

Agreed - What??????? In our town the guys who poured the sidewalks often impressed symbols and the year of pouring. In front of my house is "1918" and others nearby are "1912". I've never seen anyone out there doing anything other than pressure washing the mold and moss off after our rainy winters. These walks look great and certainly don't appear to have suffered from neglect.

[No Spam]

We have tons of road salt slung on the roads in the UK and concrete roads last for decades. Most of the problems you have over there are probably ground heave caused by frost.

[Stephen M]

Thankyou... the voice of sanity. I'm no expert but as resident of the 45th parallel, climate makes all the difference in expected lifespan of either type of driveway. I can't think of a single home in my community with a concrete driveway. I *have to* attibute that to the harsh climate.

(with the notable exception of an airforce base down the road, but the DOD can probably spring for 14" thick runway)

I just don't think you can answer the OP's question without factoring in geography.

Steve

[Leon]

Yeah, Living in SE Texas I thought asphalt was a messy and temporary way to go.

[PDQ]

| blackstuff but will last over 100 years and no maintenance. Well, = wash it=20 | off once in a while.

If all you want is a sidewalk, 3 1/2" is sufficient. =20 If you want to drive a vehicle over it, better get 6" so the weight of = the vehicle will not cause the concrete to break.

|=20 | If the ground is firm and has no settling, you won't need rebar or = wiremesh,=20 | BUT you do need expansion joints and control joints every 12' in both=20 | directions to control any cracking from expansion and contraction. = Also you=20 | will want a 5 sack mix (5 bags of cement per cy of mix). Some = contractors=20 | use 4 sack mix which loses strength in time and will crack more. More = money=20 | for them! A good respectable contractor can give you all the info = you=20 | need. Check out his other jobs and see what his customers say about = the=20 | work.

4 sack/5 sack --- just get the ready-mix folk to pour "Class B" well air = entrained, low slump concrete. Class B gives 5000 psi load bearing. = Some say the with 6" one does not need mesh -- BS. If you are going to = drive over it or park on it, the mesh at 3" keeps the concrete up where = it belongs. =20

If one does not have rebar one gets weather related shifting of the = slabs relative to each other (think freeze/thaw) which is most evident = at the expansion joints. For best results, the rebar should span the = expansion joints so that the slabs stay even with each other.

I was on site for my main driveway and got what I wanted. I was away = when the side pad was poured and did not get the rebar (cheap labor??). = As a result, my side pad heaves 1-2" while my main driveway does not.=20

| > We are looking into getting our driveway paved - it is currently = chat (it=20 | > runs to our house and connects with my shop - so there is my = woodworking=20 | > tie-in ;-)), and I was wondering what the pros and cons are of=20 | > blacktop-vs-concrete. I have a few quotes for blacktop, and it = ranges=20 | > from about $4900 for 2" of material vs $6100 for 3" of material = (this=20 | > includes all prep, grading, underlayment material, waste removal, = etc. on=20 | > ~ 4500 sq ft of surface). In the past, I believe it was true that=20 | > concrete had an initial higher up-front cost, but involved less=20 | > maintenance over the long run, however I am not sure if this is = still=20 | > true. I am waiting for the concrete guy to stop by and give a quote =

- but=20 | > thought I would pose the question here as to the benefits of either = for=20 | > those of you that may have had this done recently. | >

| > Thanks in advance. | >

| > George | >=20 |=20 |=20

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PDQ