OT - Basic Skills in Today's World

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wrote:

You mean like it did here after the last hurricane? No problem; my generator worked fine.
Jeff
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But you were referring to society. Did all of your neighbors have generators also?
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Many did, others didn't. Many an extension cord snaked it's way over a neighbor's fence. Life went on. We improvised, adapted and overcame. It was rougher for some than for others, but the local economy is booming, tax coffers are swelling, and local unemployment is below 3%.
Jeff
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Now consider yourself being without fuel for 3 or 4 months or much longer. You merely made best of a minor inconvenience. If real trouble came that shut down fuel production for months you too would soon feel the effects.
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It
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It
Yes, I would. But would it mean the end of American society? I don't think so. I know how to do for myself without many things. Moreover, I've seen many a disaster come and go, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, 9/11, etc, up close and personal. It's my job. One thing I have learned is that our society's coping mechanisms are quite robust.
Jeff
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On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:26:33 -0500, "Jeff McCann"

================================In academic terms this is called an error of composition. Society is not a monolith, and is becoming less so all the time.
Some segments of society and areas of the country may well be able to "cope," but these will *NOT* be the same for all problems. It is well to remember in this context "cope" does not mean a continuation of the current soccer-mom "high conspicuous consumption / air conditioned" life-style to which they are accustomed, but rather survival as in "staying alive."
Historically, there were two successive and compounding errors that produced national disasters on this scale.
#1 the failure to accurately and timely identify the problem(s); and #2 was the incorrect identification of the causes (there may well be several).
Minority groups have always been popular scape goats, but ignoring the moral factors, punitive actions / pogroms have never cured anything, and have generally made the problems worse by diverting time/effort/attention away from the real problems/causes.
Unka George (George McDuffee)
...and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased, and the epitaph drear: A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.
Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).
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wrote:

Do follow along. My point is that primitive societies tend to be more monolithic than more technologically advanced ones. This makes them more vulnerable to sudden collapse from a single or cluster of just a few factors, internal or external.

Very good. Now, see if you can figure out what types of societies are best equipped to make major adjustments to drastically changed circumstances.

And #3, resistance to, or inability to, make the necessary adaptations, often led by those who are profiteering off the collapse or the conditions leading to it. Sound familiar?

Yep.
Jeff
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Was the electricity out for six months? Nation wide? It is possible.
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Lobby Dosser wrote:

Possible but highly unlikely. In the Pacific NW lots of the electricity is hydroelectric. Other places are coal, or natural gas. What do you see as possibly causing a nation wide power outage?
Dan
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Destruction of power lines. Right now there are disruptions and everything is working. OK. If several producers go out and lines go down you could see a system that is over taxed and totally fail. It happened years ago in New York, a few years ago, or maybe last summer in the Midwest, and it happens in California. There would be no extreme hurry to repair as energy shortages are a palatable excuse to drive up prices. Both the energy companies and oil companies are enjoying this scenario right now.
Gosh, BP is shutting down its Oil pipe line today and already prices for gasoline are going up.
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John Husvar (in snipped-for-privacy@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com) said:
| With a little study and planning, they could do it with a couple
Are your sure that you really want to continue this subthread?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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wrote:

Why not? You think the tangos are going to learn something from reading these particular newsgroups? The same tangos who have been to Terrorist Training Camp 202?
Its better to know what you could be up against, and be proactive..then to blithely and blindly fumble around waiting for the sledge hammer to fall.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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John Husvar (in snipped-for-privacy@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com) said:
| Whether they read newsgroups or not, they're likely planning all | sorts of nasty little surprises -- and probably a few really big | ones. | | Fact of life anymore: They're here. They're weird. We have to deal | with it.
I'm aware of these things. I'm also aware of the extent to which a free society is vulnerable, and how very little it would take to (quietly) take the lives of tens of millions of innocent people.
My carefully considered choice is to provide neither confirmation of effectiveness of any ideas they may already have - nor to suggest new ideas for their consideration.
I would not even consider asking you to not address these topics - my suggestion was that you consider the possible consequences of doing so in this (global) public forum.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:01:41 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Did they learn that from Eric Robert Rudolph?
--

Bart

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on Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:01:41 GMT in misc.survivalism :

    Larry Bond has an interesting novel "Enemy Within". All about how an increase in "domestic" terrorism turns out to be part of the cover for an Iranian invasion of Saudi Arabia. The other part was the Iranian military taking out "all" of the of the terrorists bases in Iran.          As Judy Tend would say "It could happen."
tschus pyotr
-- pyotr filipivich Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
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Grid failure, for example. IIRC, the grid can fail in such a way that it takes down equipment. Equipment not readily avaiable.
Take a different situation. Are we prepared for a bird flu epidemic? Say 25% of the population down?
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On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 07:47:01 GMT, Lobby Dosser

===================While increasing technologies may indeed provide options, redundancies, etc, these are of use only if people know (1) they are available, and (2) how to use them.
While increasing societal "complexity" is a separate issue, the rapidil accelerating decline in trust and trustworthiness is not and it is THE critical and most problematic in the so-called symbolic manipulation [interesting word choice] areas such as stocks, bonds, pensions, insurance, and currency trading.
Unka George (George McDuffee)
...and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased, and the epitaph drear: A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.
Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).
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Yeah, that is not working out so well with the residence of New Orleans. The storm did little damage but the few broken levies which did the most damage are still a threat. This is not the first city to be pounded by a hurricane but probably one of the few where the residence simply sit back blame the governmant.
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On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:02:58 -0500, "Jeff McCann"

Perhaps. I don't know. I was thinking the other day of what would happen to the metropolitan area just to the northwest of where I live -- millions of people who are primarily living in the symbolic economy -- in the event of a societal collapse caused by, say, a series of nuclear detonations in 5 or 6 of our major financial and governmental centers: say, DC, NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, etc. People smarter than me have estimated that even such "limited" destruction would inevitably cause the collapse of the U.S. economy and society. I don't see these millions of symbolic workers being able to survive a return to a more material economy.
My (possibly wrong) conclusion is that the post-modern symbolic economy/society is much more fragile than the industrial economy/society it replaced. Too many of us are no longer able to create goods, including food, and instead are now only able to engage in symbol manipulation -- the information/entertainment economy, a.k.a the post-modern economy. Lawyers, data entry clerks, web masters, writers, actors, singers, photographers, programmers, personal trainers, relationship counselors, what have you. Can any of them put actual food on an actual table? What happens to them if their post-modern services are no longer in demand? And that ignores entirely those dependent on "entitlements"...
I don't see redundancy and flexibility -- to the contrary, I see fragility and extreme vulnerability. But I could be wrong.
-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria. http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge /
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