OT - Basic Skills in Today's World

I grew up around an uncle who literally rebuilt his entire house. He knows how to do it all. I helped some while growing up, but looked at all as grunt work and took no interest in watching what the man was doing.

I'm paying for that now. There are some projects I'll take on, but I regret not taking a bigger interest in what could have been a great learning experience.

So at times, I have to grudgingly call in a guy - an electrician, plumber or carpenter to do things I wish I could.

On the other hand, I haven't owned a home in years, so had no real need to fix things. If it broke, I called the landlord.

My wife and I recently bought a house, so I wish I knew more.

But I'm also dedicated to learning more as I go along, so I hope to reach a point in the future of being able to handle at least some minor projects.

But yeah, I do have a workbench area and it's getting more and more use so I'm happy about that. I just wish I had paid more attention as a kid.

Reply to
LiRM
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Ummmm.

Pray tell: What is the downside here. :)

John, lover of _thick_ pork chops; seared, then slow grilled.

Reply to
John Husvar

That's the first response to this thread I fully agree with. The fact that fewer and fewer people have workshops in their garages doesn't really concern me.

The fact that I have one is really what matters. If someone down the road can use the yellow pages, as Ed pointed out, then that's fine. And if some neighbour kid wants to look over my shoulder to see what I'm doing, that's ok by me. OTOH, if he (or she) would rather build a web page that's also ok.

One argument is that it's where people's interests lie. The other side of that, as pointed out by the single mother reference, is that how can a kid know where their interests lie if they're not shown? The 26 year old who bought the condo in Chicago found his interest - albeit a bit late, but he's still fumbling his way around, and he'll likely make it through. I was over 30 when I bought my first house, and scrambled to find the tools (and skills) to bring the house up to par.

There will always be people like that. If they have a leaning that way, they will eventually spackle over wallpaper, realize their mistake, and do a better job next time.

We can't have a myopic view of what we do for either a hobby or profession. The reason we do this kind of thing is that we either love it or we have a special talent for it. Hopefully it's a big dollop of both.

Tanus

Reply to
Tanus

I would assume if you intended to eat it. Pork is Unclean, read your Old Testament. If things broke down to the point where most people had to butcher their own meat, Pork would be last choice. Proper refrigeration and parasite control would certainly be long gone.

I'll stick with being able to butcher deer, beef, rabbit, and fowl.

Reply to
Stuart Wheaton

The message from "George E. Cawthon" contains these words:

Give a pig and a knife to someone who hasn't a clue and end up with

250lb of pork trimmings.
Reply to
Mark Trudgill

I refer to my 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma as a Toy Taco.

John

Reply to
John Flatley

The message from John Husvar contains these words:

The thing is you and I may be greedy bastards, and my do they eat well. But the wife and kids couldn't eat one of these in a month of sundays so you end up throwing most of it away!!

Reply to
Mark Trudgill

Reply to
Leon

Most people who want a shop want to build it themselves.

Reply to
Private

Yeah, that is not working out so well with the residence of New Orleans. The storm did little damage but the few broken levies which did the most damage are still a threat. This is not the first city to be pounded by a hurricane but probably one of the few where the residence simply sit back blame the governmant.

Reply to
Leon

But you were referring to society. Did all of your neighbors have generators also?

Reply to
Leon

PLEASE excuse me for not reading ALL of the thread in this post (It's now kind of long).

Here in central VA (Centerville, Va) We have what is called "Field Days of the Past". It's like a local Fair/Carnival.

Although, It DOES have a great deal of old/antique farm equipment... it totally blows my mind that we once, 100 years ago, had washing machines that were kept outside and had to be started with a pull rope (just like a lawnmower) because they were gasoline powered. We had rock crushers that turned watermellon sized stones into gravel (gas/steam powered) and all wicker baskets were local made (not from China at Pier1)

If we go back 100 years from THAT (1806), Saw mills were just two men working a HUGE hand saw back and forth to saw the logs into planks. I even heard stories of people moving away from their houses and then burning- down their house, just to re-collect the nails. (They were expensive to produce) WOW!

Let's push forward to today. What would happen if we were faced with a natural catastrophe? Could I hunt/fish? Could I build a fire? Basic shelter? It makes me think!

Great Post!!! Dave

Reply to
DaddyMonkey

Perhaps. I don't know. I was thinking the other day of what would happen to the metropolitan area just to the northwest of where I live -- millions of people who are primarily living in the symbolic economy -- in the event of a societal collapse caused by, say, a series of nuclear detonations in 5 or 6 of our major financial and governmental centers: say, DC, NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, etc. People smarter than me have estimated that even such "limited" destruction would inevitably cause the collapse of the U.S. economy and society. I don't see these millions of symbolic workers being able to survive a return to a more material economy.

My (possibly wrong) conclusion is that the post-modern symbolic economy/society is much more fragile than the industrial economy/society it replaced. Too many of us are no longer able to create goods, including food, and instead are now only able to engage in symbol manipulation -- the information/entertainment economy, a.k.a the post-modern economy. Lawyers, data entry clerks, web masters, writers, actors, singers, photographers, programmers, personal trainers, relationship counselors, what have you. Can any of them put actual food on an actual table? What happens to them if their post-modern services are no longer in demand? And that ignores entirely those dependent on "entitlements"...

I don't see redundancy and flexibility -- to the contrary, I see fragility and extreme vulnerability. But I could be wrong.

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

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Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

Too late. They're both grown. One works in a big city as the CFO of a non-profit foundation and the other is a temporarily retired (children to raise) writer/reporter/political aide who is married to a lawyer. All are successful in the symbolic economy and I have no influence over them -- at all. If TSHTF, I can only hope they can escape the chaos and start over. All I can do is provide them with a slight chance, IF they "make it out." Of course, I also hope the S never does HTF, but I have no influence over that, either.

(rest snipped)

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

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Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

The school that has any sort of shop class..is the exception, rather than the rule. And not just in California where I live.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

Your great grandfather and Steve were/are both correct about their current conditions. What happens if current conditions deteriorate a bit?

Steve wrote, "No, its just the workshop has changed, it can live in a computer, for instance, workshops are alive and well, they are just different, today's workshop can involved hooking up a wireless router to a wired LAN that supports Appletalk, before your time it was thatching a roof"

A wired LAN is an artifact of the symbolic economy. It is a Good Thing, right now. But if what you need is a new roof, and there is no longer much demand for wireless routers, LANs, Appletalk, etc., (as would be the case in a post-SHTF scenario) then being able to mess with LANs and such, but not roofs, leaves you out.

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

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Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

There are plenty of roofers and roofing companies in my area. When I needed a roof replacement several years ago, they did it in a tiny fraction of the time (and effort) it would have taken me to figure out how to do it, how to order the materials, how to fix the mistakes I would inevitably make, how to finish the job.

Should I learn roofing now? Not hardly, as my own roof will likely not need patching in the decades ahead of me. And I have no desire to make it a career.

Ditto for welding, horseshoeing, logging, midwifing, and all sorts of other jobs which some/many think will be up-n-coming career options in the Post-Industrial Economy. ("You, too, can become a farrier. Just call 1-800-HOR-SHOE for information on our study at home course!")

I expect that the "symbolic economy," as you call it, will become even more important after a Big Event (SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, whatever). Wireless networks, even over radio (and satellites, which will remain largely unaffected) will be used to trade options and access to things.

Consider the rise of cellphones in Mogadishu after the civil war.

E-Bay and services of that sort will become MORE important, not LESS important. Think about it. Combine online barter and sales with jitney-type delivery services and new payment approaches and one has a vibrant sub-economy.

(And vehicles will still be running. This is separate subject, but there are many, many options for fueling. NG will not vanish, biofuels are readily made, and even all-electric vehicles are here....one of my neighbors has a large photovoltaic installation sufficient to charge up his fleet of vehicles....a few entrepreneurs like this, mediating trades via satphones and Mobile WiMax, could do quite well trading the already-extant supply of tools, materials, and forms of money.)

Look to Hong Kong for one example, to Mogadishu for the other extreme. Both remain heavily "symbolic."

--Tim May

Reply to
Tim May

| On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:02:58 -0500, "Jeff McCann" | wrote: || || I think the reverse is true. Technological advancement gives a || society options, redundancies, flexibility and the ability to || assess and remediate problems.

Probably two sides of the same coin. Along with the advancements and capacity for flexibility come increasing specialization and narrowness of focus that leads to brittleness. One of the advantages we have is the wide geographic distribution of our assets - which means that as long as damage is localized, workload can be picked up in undamaged areas.

| Perhaps. I don't know. I was thinking the other day of | what would happen to the metropolitan area just to the | northwest of where I live -- millions of people who are | primarily living in the symbolic economy -- in the event of | a societal collapse caused by, say, a series of nuclear | detonations in 5 or 6 of our major financial and | governmental centers: say, DC, NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, | etc. People smarter than me have estimated that even such | "limited" destruction would inevitably cause the collapse of | the U.S. economy and society. I don't see these millions of | symbolic workers being able to survive a return to a more | material economy.

I don't think there'd be a complete collapse. There would be substantial changes and restructuring. The agricultural areas would continue to produce food, for example, and there'd still be a demand for what they produced, but the marketing and distribution systems would likely change. The food producers would still want equipment, chemicals, seed, etc and that demand would likely be satisfied.

| My (possibly wrong) conclusion is that the post-modern | symbolic economy/society is much more fragile than the | industrial economy/society it replaced. Too many of us are | no longer able to create goods, including food, and instead | are now only able to engage in symbol manipulation -- the | information/entertainment economy, a.k.a the post-modern | economy. Lawyers, data entry clerks, web masters, writers, | actors, singers, photographers, programmers, personal | trainers, relationship counselors, what have you. Can any | of them put actual food on an actual table? What happens to | them if their post-modern services are no longer in demand? | And that ignores entirely those dependent on | "entitlements"...

In some ways, yes - and in some ways, no. It might be an interesting exercise to look back and ask just how long it's been since some majority of the population of any primary city engaged in the creation of goods. Haven't the cities tended to be marketing and information centers almost from the time they became regarded as "cities" rather than "towns"?

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

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Reply to
Morris Dovey

Very well said! Good luck with the 'higher' management. Maybe I should be wishing them luck instead ???

Reply to
Ace

My father literally built his house -- cement work, plumbing, framing, siding, wiring, roofing, everything. I am somewhat embarrassed that I will probably hire my roof replaced. It comes down to 2 factors: he HAD to (no money); and I don't want to. I'm sure I could redo the roof if I really needed to. I used to do stuff like that all the time. Now I'm lazy (and old) -- and I want it done right, not cheaply.

(rest snipped)

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

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Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

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