On 9 Aug 2006 18:36:24 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org
If he gets to define the terms any way he likes, he can
prove anything -- anything at all.
Forests are forests, regardless of whether they are tree
farms or "virgin" forests.
Summum ius summa inuria.
Looks like the pot calling the kettle black.
Start with how bad I am for simply asking a question by implying that I
am defining terms to fit my argument and the you make a strange
definition to support your own argument.
There are major differences between virgin forests and tree farms. Not
even all virgin forests are the same.
There is lots of good science on the subject, far more than will fit
into net news sound bites.
I never said anything like that at all.
I am pointing out that when comparing things it is important to define
the terms and understand the time frame of the comparison.
There is such a thing as sustainable forestry and logging but in the USA
today it is really only being done by owners of small woodlots.
The reason clear cutting is popular is that it is cheap and can be done
with much less skilled labor. Selectively harvesting only the mature
trees and removing them with minimal damage to the rest of the forest
requires more labor and people with more education and experience.
Yes, that also would mean that I would pay more for my lumber but I
already pay top dollar for quality lumber so it really wouldn't change
things for me so much.
Since 1900 perhaps, but not compared to the pinnacle of replanting
efforts several decades ago. We cut down trees to build more homes each
day. There's no physical way a population can be kept growing without
using more timber unless steel framework supplants most of it. The
forest industry puts out smooth propaganda, but renewability is being
lost to population growth in most places. They plant tree farms at
higher density and try to call it "more acreage."
(compare 1926 to 1990)
And also, what kind of acreage is it? Old growth trees of hundreds of years
ago, certainly don't measure up to what is grown today. Same acreage maybe,
but certainly not same quality, durability or foliage.
Very true. Here's one of many maps showing the general plight of old
Many on the Right don't believe Man can impact nature unless it was
decreed in the Bible. They will always claim that down means up when a
resource is discussed; or price matters more than physical abundance.
They'll spotlight some guy planting a dozen trees in his backyard,
while a nearby subdivision flattens the last wild oaks in the county.
Of course, a few oaks will be left standing so they can give it a trite
Are you talking about a few plots here and there? Communism was as bad
or worse for nature than unfettered capitalism. Where are you getting
"Russian experts who have spent five years mapping the forests say much
of what is left is in jeopardy.....researchers say what little is left
of the forests is at risk, as the parts likeliest to attract
exploitation have no protection under federal or local law."
Of course not. Don't be so silly.
If not a welfare recipient, then a welfare advocate.
Mmmm I don't know. Winston seemed to want to argue it.
We do? Gosh, I guess I didn't need to put 160,000 miles on a Geo Metro
when I could have enjoyed driving Blazer? My home is 1600 sqft instead
of 2000 to 2200 that seems to be the "starter" home of today.
Yep, all those conservative hispanic, moslem, hindu, and chinese
"wingers" keep growing the population. No go back and do your homework
before you say something else as stupid.
By and large, no. The post-modern economy is primarily
concerned with symbol manipulation -- not the creation of
real goods. There is very little call for the ability to do
icky stuff like using tools. What is needed in today's
world is the ability to manipulate symbols (known also as
the Symbolic Economy -- spreadsheets, databases, web pages,
data entry, reading and writing reports, politicking,
entertainment, lawyering, etc.).
A serious question, but one most of us don't like to think
about, is -- what skills might be needed in a
post-post-modern (a.k.a. post-SHTF) economy? And could we
meet such needs, if necessary? Probably not, which leads us
to the possibility of Tim May's "massive die-off," which
people like Jared Diamond assure us is possible when any
society/economy collapses. It is probably true that the
more symbolic, abstract, and detached from the production of
real goods a society/economy becomes, the more likely it is
to suffer a catastrophic collapse.
Summum ius summa inuria.
It came evident when the basic mom wanted a rocket scientist or Doctor / Lawyer
as a son/daughter.
The schools were being and are still being hammered on numbers - those that
go to college are value, those that get trade jobs are nothing - just like
So money and care to trade classes went to lit and social classes - every one
needed to read....
Power base shift from life to socialism. As some of these children
moved into higher education and into jobs - they found being able to think, sit,
learn-on-the-fly and under pressure - was getting harder - it was done for
Those with skills continued to thrive as they fed both business and now a larger
base of need.
My wife has a tool box. I keep it stocked the tools and such that we need for
the house - and
bought her a nice Dewalt screwdriver - that she drills and screws into the house
at will. I introduced
the 60 and 100# wallboard hanger - so now she is doing her thing and using me as
Now I have a willing and trained - yes I helped her do it at first - when I need
My object in this was simple. A friend of mine lost his dad. The mother didn't
know how to
pay bills, ........fix anything... and lost most of here money in a money
shuffle stock manager...
I decided to get my wife geared in such a way she could run the house and her
life as needed.
I was flying all over the world and working 10 miles from a 'firing range' or
cease fire line
as it is really called. Flying into 5 countries in two days and driving in
trying to save some company or someones job. I almost didn't come back on one
trip and another
it was an emergency recall from France to Switzerland to L.A. (non-stop) to San
Jose - with 2 hours
between planes in Switzerland. Swiss Air did a wonderful thing by routing me on
a special plane
they had going.
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
Swelter in the apartment without air conditioning. Start suffering from
dehydration because the water pumps to the roof water towers have shut off,
suffer a heart attack going down 17 flights of stars because the elevators
aren't working, break a leg in the taxi cab after the accident because all
the stop lights are out, die in the hospital parking lot from a stroke
because the emergency is packed and the intern working on you in the taxicab
back seat can't properly work a manual blood pressure gauge.
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