OT - Basic Skills in Today's World

[Private]

You are correct that oil changes are inexpensive and frequently offered as loss leaders, however:

A - I buy my premium oil by the (several) case when it is on sale, same for premium filters. The oil and filters used by cheap oil changers are not of equal quality. B - I can change the oil at home in MUCH less time than it takes to travel (more $ for gas) and wait for someone else to do the job, according to how busy they are this wait is often not insignificant. C - By doing the work myself, I can do it at my convenience and when it should be done at not when I have the time to schedule the chore into the time the oil changer has available. There is never a line up at home and I am open for business any time I want to be. D - I do not change my own oil because I am saving money (which I do, but not a substantial amount). I do it because it is easier, quicker and more convenient. It is usually combined with other preventative maintenance work which I do not trust an oil changer to perform. I did make the mistake of going to an oil changer (once) and because I thought it would be convenient (long story), had them check and change the manual transmission oil and top off the OD. I neglected to get a firm price quote for this service and ended up paying a huge amount for the trans service and the trans oil AND had to show the kid how to do the job as he did not have a clue.

Self sufficiency is an attitude and a lifestyle which cannot be explained to people who do not share similar feelings. Different strokes for different folks, as always YMMV

[Mark & Juanita]

Dang! You mean the right hand rule is good for more than the direction of a vector cross-product? Thanks. (Still learning)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Lew Hodgett]

The manufacturer suggests changing oil at 7,500 mile intervals, I change at 3,000 miles so the so called stuff is adequate for my purposes.

I leave the vehicle and pick it up at my convenience. Yes, that requires some planning, but NBD.

I have been very fortunate finding competent mechanics, when I need one, that expect to be paid a fair price while providing quality service.

Was it Jiffy Lube?

They have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar a few times around here.

Trust me, I'm VERY self sufficient, but working on cars is not my thing, if I have a choice.

That's my line

Lew

>

[R. Lander]

That's pure partisan rhetoric. Do you honestly think Republicans have the corner on personal accountability? Everyone else is a welfare recipient, eh?

That has nothing to do with the fact that human overpopulation is outstripping forests' ability to renew themselves. Any idiot knows that trees are cut to build houses, but "conservative" idiots treat nature as a bottomless pit of materials. Their motivation is to grow the population and economy forever, leaving no balance in the system.

R. Lander

[R. Lander]

Many people understand how to manipulate nature, but they're clueless about nature's limits, and how Man is pushing those limits to the edge. This IS a survival newsgroup, after all. Home repair can be learned with common sense and instructions if one has the will. What's really hard to teach is respect for the land and conservation values that can prevent societal collapse. Greed is the norm but it won't fix anything in the long run. Anyone who's a survivalist and a "conservative" had better stop wasting and start conserving for a change.

R. Lander

[D Murphy]

"CW" wrote in news:%KaCg.1811$Qf.1025 @newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

The tool & die shop where I served my apprenticeship had about 10 guys all working with manual machines. There is no doubt that all of that work could be done by two guys a VMC and a couple of wire EDMs nowadays.

If you think that all the manufacturing jobs were lost overseas, you are misinformed. Most were lost to automation, which includes CNC.

[J. Clarke]

Changing your own oil is not "self sufficiency". "Self sufficiency" is drilling your own oil well, pumping it, and refining it yourself. All you're doing is engaging in a hobby.

[Steve Taylor]

Except in Russia, where the growth of forests has been enormous over the last few years.

Steve

[J. Clarke]

These "homeowner's associations" need to be taken down a peg. They're starting to get too big for their britches. I would _not_ buy in a community where there was such a thing.

[John Husvar]

A good relationship with a good inspector is one of the best helps a contractor can have.

When I held my electrician license, Old Al, one of the county inspectors I dealt with, often suggested different approaches to jobs than my proposed plans. He was seldom wrong and always very conscientious. If he did find something wrong, he'd make sure to mark it or reference it clearly so I could find and fix it easily.

It's a lot easier to correct a problem when the inspector leaves a note like: "3rd receptacle from door on the sink side no ground. Fix it and call me. I'll pass the job so you can get paid."

He'd better never go back and find you hadn't fixed it, though. No way you'd ever do another job in that county in one try thereafter. He got out his microscope then and would even measure staple placement on a rough-in or exactly how much ground rod was sticking out of the dirt. Couple of fellows found that out the hard way.:)

[Robert Sturgeon]

The same is true of the U.S., where we have more forested land now than in 1900.

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

[Charlie Self]

A friend of mine built his shop in such an area. It's a large shop for a hobby woodworker (32' x 48' with a full basement), but to match the other houses in the area, he had to add a brick front. I didn't ask how much extra that added to the cost, but brick and the masons don't come all that cheap, even around here. I live in the boonies, have a smaller shop, and did it in rough, green wood, board and batten style. One helluva lot cheaper, even if it is fairly ugly.

[jpolaski]

Well put, Private.

I change my own oil and do the maintenance because it generally saves time and costs about the same. I know the quality of the stuff I use if good, and I can change the oil faster than I can drive to the quick-lube place and back. Plus all the other reasons you listed.

Doing maintenance might not be for everyone, but I think more people should at least learn the basics. Also, if you know more about how your car works, you're less likely to get ripped off when you need to take it in.

[Prometheus]

Good on ya, Ace. Anyone driving past my garage when the door was open would likely be "disgusted" by the room for the car- but the whole basement is filled with some fairly serious woodworking equipment. Aside from the basic increase in security, the basement is climate controlled, and keeps my large tool investment from rusting on me. Better it stays that way, even (perhaps especially) if the folks driving through the neighborhood have no idea the shop is there.

[Prometheus]

Well, there is a component here that hasn't been addressed in any way- I've been doing construction and steel work my whole life, and as a result, I'm a pretty big guy. When it comes to knowing *what* to do to fix the car, there isn't a problem- but when it comes down to trying to fish my arm down through an engine when every availible inch has been packed full of vacuum lines and plastic covers, the job becomes impossible. It's not a matter of complexity, it's a matter of space, and I'd much rather find a mechanic who needs some remodeling done in exchange for a repair job then spend 14 hours and half my skin on my day off trying to do something that someone else can do in 30 minutes.

[grappletech]

Prometheus wrote in news: [e-mail]:

My last truck was an '87 Dodge Ram D150 with the 225 ci slant 6 engine and was real durable and reliable. While doing maintenance on it, there was tons of room in the engine compartment. You could climb into it if you wanted. Everything was easy to get to. You didn't have to spend an hour removing other stuff to get to the part you needed to get to. Working on an older full size truck with a straight 6 spoils you, and then you open up the hood on a modern FWD car! Wires, vacuum hoses, EFI everywhere, no gaps! packed like sardines.

[Prometheus]

Thers is also a good deal of lasting value in The Republic of Plato, Book VIII, 562a-569c, where he deals with the methods by which a democracy devolves into tyrannical rule. There is little doubt that any number of people will yell that Plato lived too long ago for his work to be relevant to our society, but the preceeding section dealing with the transistion from oligarchy to democracy is a fine description of the change from colonial times to our current society, and grants the argument cited above more than a little credibility when viewed through that lens.

The overall argument of this thread seems to be focused on some type of TSHTF (I like that acronym, btw) event or events that would toss us back into the stone age- but that is not necessarily the most likely or most dangerous situation that our society could face. I agree with the nub of the argument that men need to remember the means and methods by which we have built our modern world, but to my mind it is more important that those things be remembered so that we do not end up with a thousand years of darkness similar to Europe following the fall of the Roman empire. Rome had a high standard of living as well, and had the people at large retained the knowledge used to build that emipre, they could very well have lived in comfort rather than being cowed by the church and left to cower in hovels because they had spent too much time watching the reality TV of gladitorial combat and overspecializing.

Yeah, I know- some other fella called me a nutjob over this not too long ago on this list, but it's happened before, it'll happen again. Nothing much new under the sun, after all.

[Prometheus]

Sounds like they need my uncle John to give 'em hell for a while. I still end up arguing with coworkers over the overtightening "lessons" I got from him when I was an apprentice. There were to be absolutely no broken bolts or stripped fasteners in his shop, and it seems he was a bit of an oddity in that when I watch most guys work these days- but it sure was a valuable lesson for me, especially now that I have my own equipment to maintain.

Good lesson for life in general, too- always use the right tool and the right amount of force to get the job done properly, and you save yourself an asswhipping later.

[Prometheus]

Yep. Even chicken is getting to be out of reach in my household unless we buy whole livestock and butcher locally- and that's just with a increase in gas prices, not a shortage.

[Prometheus]

It's about 90/10 as far as I can tell when I do homeowner or small contractor remodeling. 90% of the inspectors are great- they give you very little trouble, and are more than willing to help find workarounds for specific code issues if you want to do something a little unorthadox. The other 10% could kill you with a look, but I've found that in most of those cases, the homeowner had previously contacted them before I ever came into the picture, and did something to really irritate the guy. (Missing scheduled appointments, doing other work without permits, etc.)