OT: Basement Ceiling Insulation

We have a one-story house with a full basement. The main floor is built on 2x10 floor joists withthree-quarter plywood sub-flooring.
The basement "ceiling" is simply the underside of the main flooring - exposed 2x10's about 7 ft ten inches above the concrete floor. I have a fire place down there that houses a fire-box insert/stove wich I used to generate a portion of the heat used in the colder months. THere is also an oil-fired furnace at least 40 years old with metal ductwork hanging beneath and (where running parallel with) between the joists.
I've been thinking of installing insulation between the joists. My first thought was to simply buy the 15" wide six-inch thick rolls and staple the paper to the underside of the joists much like I've done on the verticle walls we've insulated over the years. This would leave a brown paper** "ceiling," six inches of fiberglass, four inches of air space and, finally the sub-flooring.
Then I recalled that the paper/moisture barrier was to face the heated side of the structure (when doing 3.5" rolls in the walls) - our wall studs are two by fours - not six inches!
Do any of you know 1. If insulation here Under the flooring) is a good idea, and 2. if stapling batts or roll insulation as described is "the" or "a" right way to go about it?
** The next step would be to install drywall or similar paintable material to achieve a white ceiling down there.
Thanks for the (anticipated) helpful feedback.
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On 10/2/2011 8:53 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:

Why? What do you expect to accomplish? It's not possible to give meaningful answers to your questions without knowing that.

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If you have a cold basement and want to keep the heat upstairs, yes. In your case, you have a wood burner for heat and insulation will prevent it from heating the floor above.
You can probably save 20% to 40$ on the oil bill if you upgrade the 40 year old furnace.
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 In your case, you have a wood burner for heat and insulation will prevent it from heating the floor above. You can probably save 20% to 40$ on the oil bill if you upgrade the 40 year old furnace."
Thanks, I think the studding and perimeter wall insulation is the way I will need to go. But, I have to address a moisture issue or two before cladding up the block walls down there. I can start on the rim- joist insulation (above the block wall) - that should help keep the cold out. Thanks again.
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On 10/04/11 12:50 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:

Is the moisture problem a leak or just condensation? Leaks can be a big job. Condensation, vapour barrier, stud and insulate and you will be fine.
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
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Froz...Is the moisture problem a leak or just condensation? Leaks can be a big job. Condensation, vapour barrier, stud and insulate and you will be fine.
Wh are on the side of a hill/mountain (most of our acreage is above us) and we get water seeping up into the slab - as opposed to condensation on the slab. I've put twenty gallons of Dry-Loc on the CBS walls and that seems to have worked - they seem dry, but the slab gets wet during the Summer. It could be condensation.
I have put down some concrete sealer in one area an will cover that with linoleum/vinyl flooring material (remnant 8 x 12 foot cheap stuff) and then put the carpeting back over the are and see what develops. I figure that, if I can keep the moisture away from things "organic," I can prevent mold and mildew.
I am also looking into running a duck or two at the rear, windowless, portion of the basement up into the attic in the hope of engendering some "natural" air circulation. The entire 1000 + sf basement only has three windows that each provide an opening of about six inches by two foot. Not much in the way of ventilation. And, as they are at geound level (or below) on the outside, leaving them open during heavy rain could let in lots of water!
BYW - I am not interested in Sound-proofing. So you boys can stop fighting.
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On 10/02/11 8:53 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:

A much more useful exercise would be to stud and insulate the basement walls.
--
Froz...


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"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message
We have a one-story house with a full basement. The main floor is built on 2x10 floor joists withthree-quarter plywood sub-flooring.
The basement "ceiling" is simply the underside of the main flooring - exposed 2x10's about 7 ft ten inches above the concrete floor. I have a fire place down there that houses a fire-box insert/stove wich I used to generate a portion of the heat used in the colder months. THere is also an oil-fired furnace at least 40 years old with metal ductwork hanging beneath and (where running parallel with) between the joists.
I've been thinking of installing insulation between the joists. My first thought was to simply buy the 15" wide six-inch thick rolls and staple the paper to the underside of the joists much like I've done on the verticle walls we've insulated over the years. This would leave a brown paper** "ceiling," six inches of fiberglass, four inches of air space and, finally the sub-flooring.
Then I recalled that the paper/moisture barrier was to face the heated side of the structure (when doing 3.5" rolls in the walls) - our wall studs are two by fours - not six inches!
Do any of you know 1. If insulation here Under the flooring) is a good idea, and 2. if stapling batts or roll insulation as described is "the" or "a" right way to go about it?
** The next step would be to install drywall or similar paintable material to achieve a white ceiling down there.
Thanks for the (anticipated) helpful feedback.
=============== You wouldn't, typically insulate between two heated areas, unless for sound isolation???
I agree with FN's posts. Stud the basement wall and insulate the perimeter of the house. You will gain valuable warmer basement space.
--
Eric


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On 10/3/11 1:46 PM, Eric wrote:

Fiberglas insulation does virtually nothing in term of soundproofing. It's a nice little marketing ploy my the Pink Panther to sell more insulation. The only "soundproofing" benefits might come from taking the hollow echo out from the wall when you bang against it. But as far as stopping sound from going through the wall, it does does virtually nothing.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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You do nothing for this group when it comes to intelligence....add to the noise in the group. greatly but nothing constructive.
Give us some cites for your unsubstantiated BS, for once. Impress the few listeners that haven't killfiled you yet.
------------- "-MIKE-" wrote in message Fiberglas insulation does virtually nothing in term of soundproofing. It's a nice little marketing ploy my the Pink Panther to sell more insulation. The only "soundproofing" benefits might come from taking the hollow echo out from the wall when you bang against it. But as far as stopping sound from going through the wall, it does does virtually nothing.
--

-MIKE-



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It must be my imagination at work. I renovated one of the bathrooms in our house and in the process installed insulation in the wall that separates the bathroom from the den. I can barely hear the TV in the den (at normal listening level) while I'm in the bathroom. But the most important effect is that while in the den and someone flushes the toilet in that particular bathroom, it can't be heard in the den. Maybe it's the 30# felt I installed under the tile?
Max
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On 10/3/11 7:59 PM, Max wrote:

All the high to mid range is stopped by bouncing off the walls. Low-mids and low end are only stopped by uncoupled mass, which resonate at different frequencies. This is not stuff I'm making up. It's all common knowledge to anyone in audio production and it's all out on several websites.
I'm not saying you didn't notice a difference in sound with your remodel. I would, however, speculate that it had more to do with other factors than the insulation. Too many hypotheticals to speculate.
I don't need to argue these facts. There's a reason you don't see an ounce of Fiberglas vat insulation in any recording studio, anywhere. Because it simply does very, very little to stop sound.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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wrote:

Not quite true, but it all depends on the frequency of the noise. Bass notes come right through it but it really dampens higher frequencies.

The felt will likely cause you adhesion problems later if ou put it between your backer board and the tile. It also adds minimal sound deadening, but the extra mass of the tile + backer board stops most of it, while the fiberglass insulation absorbs 3-5dB. http://goo.gl/MkK5d
Better fiberglass matting for sound: http://goo.gl/i8tO8
The point is: Every little bit helps when it comes to sound blocking, deadening, and absorbing.
If it were cheaper, I'd put up QuietRock on my bedroom walls and ceiling. http://www.quietrock.com /
-- Worry is a misuse of imagination. -- Dan Zadra
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On 10/3/11 10:20 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

The higher frequencies don't penetrate the mass of the sheetrock, the bounce around inside. They do, however, leak through any tiny little crack that will pass air.
Often, when people insulate an interior wall, they use a backed blanket and you know how those things puff out from the studs, right? Many times, the wallers don't screw the rock all the way to the studs... it sit out from the studs 1/4" or more. This actually acts to create uncoupled mass in the wall construction, which does more to stop sound than the insulation. This acts a bit like z-channel.
Again, I'm not going to sit here and retype or cut-n-paste stuff from websites (like a lot of guys often do). It's out there and can be learned. I've helped design and build studios and drum isolation rooms, so I have quite a bit of working knowledge and research under my belt.

Not really... but I understand your point. My point is that people do lots of unnecessary things to try to stop sounds, which simply don't do anything, or next to nothing.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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Too lazy to substantiate your useless rants but not to lazy to type them.
Too bad nobody is listening anymore.
----------------- "-MIKE-" wrote in message Again, I'm not going to sit here and retype or cut-n-paste stuff from websites (like a lot of guys often do). It's out there and can be learned.
--

-MIKE-


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Insulation between the studs. 30# felt. Backer board. Tile. In that order. Has worked for me for many years. In any bathroom I've done. "Every little bit helps" <G> AND........ I always try to have 2X6s in the walls. AND......blocking for the installation of grab bars. If possible.
Max
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wrote:

Whew! You had me scared there for a minute.

Smart man, Max.
-- Worry is a misuse of imagination. -- Dan Zadra
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On 10/3/11 7:51 PM, m II wrote:

1st. Let's take a poll and see who the group thinks contributes more, me or you.
2nd. I'm not going to do your homework for you. Go to http://www.soundproofing.org/ and do some reading on the subject before you go spouting off, further proving your ignorance.
BTW, if you haven't noticed yet, asshole, you're the one who is killfiled by so many.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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