OT: At least there was one

[Joe Tylicki]

What does Bush 43 have to do with Reagan? How is this a flip flop?

When did Bush not support trade with China? Same question?

The UN resolutions were a result of an armistice on a war which we shouldered 95% of the burden. They were simply a conduit. Again, same question.

Veterans benefits continue to outpace inflation, and everyone in the private sector has seen their insurance plans change over time to fight the escalating costs. Again, where is the flip flop?

All Americans have health care. Oh, do you mean "health insurance"? Funny how the left never wants to phrase it that way. Again, I don't see any flip flop.

Show me one instance where Bush told us something he knew wasn't true.

I realize the DNC is fighting the Kerry flip flop charge tooth and nail, but none of the six listed could be described as a flip flop. Kerry has flipped on the exact same issues numerous times.

Joe

[Dave Hinz]

Riiiiight, he removed highly sensitive documents from a controlled area to do a little homework.

[Charlie Self]

Joe Tylicki responds:

The density of the bone in Bush's head keeps him from knowing a lot of things.

WTF does the DNC have to do with the listed items, which, in fact, were listed as faults, not as flip flops originally?

Charlie Self "I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'" Garrison Keillor

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:30:46 -0400, Renata calmly ranted:

Most likely. Read this in your spare time. Excellent!

was very surprised to see 25-30 Army (According to a guard, the National Guard is now Army) soldiers guarding the little air show at Grants Pass Airport last month, but what really got to me was the fact that one of these guys was talking with

2 other guards as they walked by the privvy I was in and they were talking about how fun it would be to turn one over instead of walking guard duty. This is the mentality of those who guard our country?

Agreed. Perhaps lying to the country and Congress should be impeachable, too. Where ARE those Iraqui WMDs? Several thousand searchers (not counting the official weapons inspectors) for two years didn't turn anything up, but gee, one turning up just a few months before the ballot box sure was convenient, wasn't it?

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[Dave Balderstone]

Yup.Let's hope they don't catch Osama before November, too... Right Larry?

And heaven forbid the foreign terrorists in Iraq are beaten out of the country before then... Just another election stunt.

And if they actually take Falluja and kill or capture Abu Musab al-Zarqaw... They were just waiting for the right poll numbers.

And I suppose if the Islamofascists manage another attack on US soil, well... Bush will have staged that, too. Or will it be Bush's fault and everyone will know that if Gore had rightfully become president it never would have happened?

You guys crack me up... ANY success between now and the election is going to be savaged by the LL as a stunt. Yup, America should just roll back inside its borders and cower, while taking a stern position on Israel, apppeasing the cesspool of corruption that's the UN, and recognizing that it's to blame for the rabid Islamic fascism trying to take over the world.

Just elect Kerry and he'll fix things, or he won't but will have voted for it before he voted against it, or something...

[WD]

Are you sure or are you going to flip flop too?

[WD]

Bush keep on hesitating every time he speaks, I wish Cheney was there to help him. When he say. "Cheney can be Presiden!", for a minute I thot he say "Cheney is President"

[Nate Perkins]

Really? Berger admitted sloppiness in removing handwritten notes and copies, nothing more. Nobody claims any original documents are missing. This is confirmed by the Republican chair of the 9/11 commission.

's more, the FBI agents investigating it for the last several months said they did not regard the Berger inquiry "as a front-burner type of investigation." ado about (almost) nothing.

Who says Kerry knew anything? Who says there was anything to know? You guys are jumping from unnamed sources accusing a reputable ex-national security adviser of stuffing classified documents in underwear and socks (pretty silly on the face of it) to hiding info from the 9/11 commission (which has already been refuted by the 9/11 commission) to Kerry being behind it all (which seems like blatant political slander to me). Absolutely ridiculous.

I'll ask again: Maybe you can explain to me what possible motivation Berger would have to steal copies of memos that the 9/11 commission has already seen?

Because it was a breach of protocols and sloppy handling of classified documents. Why is that a mystery?

I'm not sure I follow what you are driving at with your "leftie's anti-Bush tactic." Why do you think it's Kerry's job (or even appropriate) to know the details for how Berger prepared for testimony and how he testified for the 9/11 commission?

[Nate Perkins]

Same here. In 2000 my candidate of choice was John McCain. Previously I often (but not always) voted Republican.

But today's Republican party isn't really the Republican party of old. Visionary Republican presidents like Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower wouldn't have a chance in today's Republican party -- they'd be branded as "liberals."

It used to be that the country had an understanding of what it meant to be a Rockefeller Republican or a Southern Democrat. It used to be that the parties understood what it meant to have a big tent. It used to be that the parties worked for inclusion and consensus. Now the Republicans are all racing each other to see who can move the farthest to the right. The Democrats are confused in their message, alternately trying to pander to the left to win the nomination and then to move to the center so they can be elected, and are really only unified by a common dislike of the incumbent.

And Bush is so inflexible and simplistic in his approach to complicated long-term problems that you have to go back to the days of Harding and Coolidge to find anything similar. Lots of people voted for him because he promised to be a consensus builder, and would all have our cake and eat it too. Now that the people know Bush, many will be more skeptical the second time around.

At its core, this election is really about whether or not you believe that Bush has screwed things up, and whether or not you believe that Kerry is likely to do a better or a worse job. Myself, I will be voting for Anybody But Bush.

[Henry St.Pierre]

Larry Jaques wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Appears you've never stood guard duty. Don't worry, even with that mentality they'll still take a hit for you.

[Mark]

Larry, I bet your ass is so tight you can't squeak out a fart.

[Dave Hinz]

If he's got Berger as an adviser, that means that Berger is honest enough to meet Kerry's standards, right? I mean, who would have an adviser they don't trust?

At some point, Kerry learned that Berger had removed these documents. When did he learn? If he learned a while ago and kept Berger on staff, it's because he doesn't care about dishonesty. If he learned about it only right before we did, and kicked Berger out then, why is his own staff able to do this sort of criminal activity without Kerry knowing?

Either he knew and accepted dishonest advisers, or he didn't know through a personal failing of his own. Does the analogy make more sense to you now? Are your irony detectors going off yet? Do you see the tactic that I am referring to?

[Dave Hinz]

Resorting to a personal attack on anyone, is a sure sign that you have no facts from which to build your argument. I expected you to be above that, Charlie, I really did.

[George]

Now either you're dense, or just trying to act so.

In this country, a woman may abort and avoid responsibility for her reproductive actions, a male does not have that option.

Is that clear enough?

[George]

Snicker.

[Nate Perkins]

You're way out on a limb here. I don't see why I should debate Kerry's theoretical knowledge of a hypothetical wrongdoing and then speculate about what he knew and when he knew it.

Besides, if we apply your impractical standard uniformly, then any of Bush's associates that have made a mistake should likewise resign. That would be what, half his cabinet?

You are trying to ask questions that are really thinly-veiled innuendo about the honesty of both Berger and Kerry, and that innuendo is not substantiated by known facts. I don't see much evidence of dishonesty here. Apparently neither does the FBI or the 9/11 commission (see prev links). What I do see are a few politicos trying like heck to manufacture a little stink and hoping it will stick on Kerry.

The problem here is that Kerry has absolutely no authority over Berger with regard to anything related to the 9/11 testimony. And Berger has already resigned as an unpaid adviser to Kerry. What are you trying to point out? That Kerry's advisers resign as soon as error is apparent -- but Bush's guys refuse to resign despite much bigger screwups?

Of course I recognized the analogy you were trying to draw on your first posting; it seems as spurious now as it did then. Equating Sandy Berger with the war in Iraq is too ridiculous to bother with.

[Casey Stamper]

Larry Jaques wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I guess you never make jokes, huh Larry? And, I guess you were never a kid either? These soldiers will defend to the death your right to your opinion, though.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 07:18:23 -0500, Casey Stamper calmly ranted:

I am not enlisted OR on duty AND in uniform, sir.

The public could easily hear his joke for 30 feet in any direction, and I would bet top dollar that if his CO had heard him make the remark, he'd have been put in the brig for a few days so he could think about how his remark weakens the public morale over their defenders.

Sure, I make jokes and was a kid, but when I was working and the joke was against the company or its clients, I kept it low in volume, real low-key. That idiot should have done the same.

While I fully support our troops, I do NOT condone assinine actions either in the states or overseas, especially when it affects world opinion of our great nation. Additionally, Casey, as a US citizen, it's my DUTY to keep watch over the politicians and our military.

I stand by my outrage at the guard's actions.

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[Charlie Self]

Larry Jaques remarks:

Fair enough. Most of us aren't.

You can bet all the dollars you want, but it's very difficult for the Navy or Marines to turn someone into a brig rat, probably impossible on the strength of a callow joke. Freedom of speech in the military is not as strong as in civilian life, but it has some power. Too, the ANG would have one helluva time putting anyone in the brig. That belongs to the Navy and Marines. The Army uses "stockade" as a synonym.

I'm inclined to doubt a smart-assed remark by one trooper in the States, no matter how asinine, is going to do much to change world opinion of the U.S. If it does, piss on the world, IMO.

It is not your duty to keep watch over the military. I suggest you do not do so out loud around some of these guys, especially ones who have recently been in combat.

Yes, the joke was in bad taste. But who on earth ever told you that military personnel were tasteful types. God knows, I wasn't back in the day. And I still am not, and grateful for it.

You will find, too, another level of behavior and attitude in general when these youngsters get overseas. Having stood my share of firewatch, and other watches, on ship and land, I fully understand the temptation to tip over the shithouse after a few hours of back and forth boredom.

Charlie Self "I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'" Garrison Keillor

[Larry Jaques]

On 25 Jul 2004 14:20:39 GMT, [e-mail] (Charlie Self) calmly ranted:

So sue me for breach of

One MORE unprofessional stunt by any US citizen/military personnel/CIA/hired corporate soldier/+ in today's climate is not a good thing. It's a salt-in-the-wound kind of thing, Charlie, and I just wish that his CO had heard it.

Perhaps not _directly_, but...

Grok that.

- The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier. ------------

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