OT: As if THS is news.....

[Max]

What has the last 20 years got to do with it. My sons have done so.

I live in El Paso and there are several businesses who do that kind of business. There are also 2 sisters who borrowed the money to buy a long wheelbase van which they converted into a pet grooming mobile service. It wasn't long before they split the business and now they each have a van and use helpers.

Summer jobs mostly and working as helper for self employed plumbers, electricians, remodelers etc. (A little research will reveal that there are lots of self employed who work on weekends) It got them through college.

Well, J. Clarke, if you're convinced it can't be done, it can't be done. Plain as that. Here's a few suggestions. Go to a community college to get the basic courses (English, Government, Sociology, Math, etc) out of the way. It's cheaper at the CCs and the credits can be tranferred. The CCs have plenty of evening and weekend schedules. Once you're thru the basics, apply for financial help to pay for the tuition and books at a regular college/university. Keep in mind that you may have to attend evenings and weekends in order to hold down a full time job. It might take a little longer that way but where do you want to go? I should mention that there has to be a certain amount of desire to accomplish these things. Do you do woodworking. Can you build a few things to make some money, Adirondack chairs, picnic tables, cabinets, . I turn away lots of work because it's just a hobby with me but the demand seems to be there. If you're talking about your kids, can you teach them some skills? I know a guy who builds model trains out of wood and sells them for $300.

Max

[Mark & Juanita]

Always the doom and gloom eh?

Then that's not an option

Motivation to do well. Hopefully he has done the cost trades

Yep, if you look deep enough. I grew up on a small family farm that was far from prosperous. My folks pushed us to do will in school and were supportive in terms of providing a place to live (couldn't afford the dorm, so I had a 30 mile commute), provided the opportunity to work to pay for school (I put myself through school raising pigs), and encouragement -- they couldn't provide money. Both my brother and I got our engineering degrees and found good jobs that have been good to us. We could have groused about how we couldn't afford to go to college if we tried the traditional route, but as Rod said, if there is a will there is a way.

I'm trying to figure out if you are looking for excuses for others, or what the deal is, you seem to be able to identify why it is just impossible for someone starting with little to do well (or even OK). Not everyone will become plant manager, manager, or CEO, but with determination and some drive, it should be possible to make a decent living.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I've been there 18 years. I've known the owners for well over 20 and we worked together at another company. There has never been a layoff. We have

18 employees and use a temp service for production when needed. The building we were in had a fire and shut us down, but no one missed an hour of pay. Even when we had no production for 5 months while moving to our other building. section of the building did not burn, be we had to move out anyway.

Employee age ranges from 72 down to 22. We have few rules, but the most important is "get the job done". As long as we are shipping on time, making a profit and keeping customers happy, there is very few questions asked. We all have the same goal as we all share in the benefits. Profit sharing,

401k, good medical, even free coffee.

Don't ask me how much vacation time I get. I don' tknow. I just take off whatever time I need. Don't ask me what my hours are either. For the longest time I started at 8 but now I go in roughly at 7 and leave about four, unless I leave at 2. Or unless I go out during the day to get an oil change. I don't consider going to work "work". No plans to retire.

[Hank]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Yes, some people went to law school to become a public defender. A public defender doesn't do that bad. I knew many true believers that had that career in mind and many more whom studied for degrees in social work. Another high paying job, but not as good as public defender. I don't understand people that pleasure in putting down others that had the initiative take charge of their lives. Student loans are loans and should be repaid. Bitching about repaying them is the same as bithing about repaying your mortgage. Credit card debt for a student is pure stupidity. You may not see this since you plonked me some time ago.

[Hank]

"George" wrote in news:_jWtj.42975$ [e-mail]:

Amen.

[Hank]

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:0d%tj.8051$ [e-mail]:

[Tim Daneliuk]

I used to have that luxury. Now I work in a 24x7 global world, my "office" is seat 21A with no snacks, mediocre service, and late flights. I use SMS so as not to disturb those around me to the degree possible. As an aside: One of my new pet peeves are the Very Important Ones who just MUST speak loudly on their cellphones up to the moment the flight rolls and back on again as soon as it lands. SMS allows folks like me to both be effective in our jobs w/o being obnoxious to our neighbors.

Obviously, this varies considerably depending on your work style, but is *is* kind of cool to be able to shoot a beautiful sunset at

37,000 ft on your camera phone, and share it (quietly) with those you love a thousand miles away. If you don't travel 250 days a year, this may not make sense, but that brief moment of quiet connection with friends and family means a lot when you show up at o-dark-thirty in some rotten airport with an hour drive ahead of you, no friends, no family, and no sleep. Again, YMMV ...

[Hank]

Charlie Self wrote in news:80b93c60-f0db-4feb-8439- [e-mail]:

Charlie, the telephone is a tool. Not knowing how to use a tool doen't make much sense. If you were an 0311, wouldn't knowing how to do 0331 stuff make sense?

[J. Clarke]

Inflation, among other things.

They kept roofs over their heads and food on the table and saved enough for college doing that sort of work? In the last 20 years or so?

Pet grooming is not "dog poo pickup".

I'm not convinced of anything. But people seem to be awfully glib about what someone who grew up in a Welfare household can accomplish.

Where does the money come from?

If the course you need are offered evenings and weekends.

What I do is irrelevant. I'm not an 18 year old kid in the projects whose mother is on welfare and whose father is nowhere to be found.

I'm talking about the hypothetical kid in the ghetto whose single mother lives on Welfare.

Carves them out of pallet wood with a Wal-mart paring knife? If he needs more than that then it's not something that's open to our hypothetical poor kid.

[J. Clarke]

Definitely not UTC. Stay an hour late and your supervisor gets mad at you for making him look bad because he hadn't stayed late. There's some vice president taking names of people who come in 5 minutes late, but he's not taking names of people who go home five _hours_ late. Get explicit orders to piss off the customer. Never met the owners, who are a bunch of anonymous shareholders.

[Charlie Self]

I think one of the reasons I didn't have a cell phone for so long is tied to those asswipes who walk around airport waiting rooms with the phone upside the head, shouting at someone on the other end. Years ago, that was to impress people in the airport with their ability to afford an expensive luxury--remember the days of $1,000 and up phones and $2.00 a minute calls? Now, they're impressing people with their ability to give orders. I figure half of what is said on cell phones is said before or after the connection is made by a bunch of phonies.

[Charlie Self]

Yeah, but I was a 6632 (I think: that was 50 years ago). Of course, the Marine Corps thinks everyone is a grunt.

[Swingman]

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

How's the weather, 72 and not a cloud in the sky?

;)

[Max]

That "tool" sure comes in handy when I go out to inspect a building and I have a bad address. Or can't find a "new" street.

Max

[Max]

Tell me about inflation!! My first "full time" (40 hr week) paid 55 cents and hour. What's minimum wage today?

No, No. they didn't wait until they were married and had a family to support before they started working. That's just stupidity in it's purest form.

I know. There are more dog poo pickup services than there are mobile pet grooming services

I'm reluctant to cry about how I grew up but here goes. We lived in a cleaned up chicken coop for awhile. It was 20' X 28'. My mother was an alcoholic not to mention some other disgusting activities. My dad, a veteran of WW2, shot himself not long after his discharge. Most of the time I lived with neighbors, relatives, friends of my mother, and an assortment of others. I had paper route at 13, did janitorial work at a beauty shop at 14 while setting bowling pins evenings at a bowling alley where they didn't yet have auto pin setters. At 15, I worked at a Nash auto dealersahip for a guy who was one of the best bosses I ever had. On weekends I waxed cars for some of the customers of the dealership. (they "said" they admired my ambition and my quality of work). At 16, I was driving a Wrecker for the dealership. I realize that some of those opportunities aren't open to young people today but there are others for anyone who really wnats to WORK and is not just looking for a job.

The money for what? Haven't heard of the Job Corp? How come I know of guys who have just gottne out of prison and get to go to school taking courses in welding, refrigeration, computer repair ad infinitum. I'm sorry, my friend, defeatism is contagious. Determination is the key to success.

Have you even checked to see?

I remember a time when I would scrounge rafter cut-offs from construction sites to make wooden toys using a coping saw.

Max (that's it for me, your attitude is depressing)

[Tim Daneliuk]

I'm with you there. I have heard some of the most bizarre, intimate, personal, and obnoxious conversations courtesy of someone blathering on a cell phone in my vicinity. It seems that some/many people think that talking on a cell phone makes them invisible and inaudible. I recently was on a flight when a woman behind me whipped out her phone the moment we landed and called her sister. There was some delay getting the door open, and all of us within a 6 foot radius of this person were treated to 15 minutes of how "Mom misses Dad. Mom doesn't want to sell the house. Sis isn't helping much. I'm holding the family together ... blah, blah, blah." When she

*finally* hung up - in the terminal - I had to restrain myself from walking up and asking, "So how's Mom today and do you think she'll get what she's asking for the house?"

This kind of behavior is rude and all too common. Again - with apologies to Twain - The more people I know, the more I like cats...

[Swingman]

"Max" wrote

Don't look now, but most of the folks in this declining county have a similar attitude these days. Not surprising, the leading adjective.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Rain. You don't have to shovel rain

[Douglas Johnson]

I am SO glad I don't do that anymore. Airline travel has been deteriorating for decades. 9/11 really accelerated it.

You speak absolute truth.

-- Doug

[Swingman]

Sorry to hear that ... at first it sounded like "Pleasantville", where are basketball shots go "swish". :)