OT: As if THS is news.....

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Sun, Feb 17, 2008, 2:32am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (CharlieSelf) doth sayeth: <snip> The whole thing strikes me as a backward step, <snip> JOAT...if you get a call at 6:30 a.m., it ain't me.
I'd have said dumb, but amounts to the same.
Heh, no one has my number. Anyway, doesn't matter what time anyone calls, my cell phone hasn't been turned on for probably a couple of weeks - and that was only so I could check a couple of settings. Seems someone mentioned texting is handy in a meeting. If you're texting it means you aren't paying attention to the meeting. And, if you need to receive text in a meeting, means you weren't prepared for the meeting. I used to get caught in mandatory "meetings", often lasting an hour. I'd sit thru all the drivel, then listen to about 2-3 sentences that actually applied to me. They'd have been a lot better served by letting me work during that time, and just stopping by my desk and telling me, or handing me a note. But that wouldn't have made them feel important. The rest it was the same, it would have made a lot more sense, and much less time, to just pass the infor along on an individual basis. No input was requested very often, just output. Apparently, the meetings were meant as sort of a pep rally, or something. I was never impressed.
JOAT 10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President - Bumper Sticker I do not have a problem with a woman president - except for Hillary.
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wrote:

The credit card back door doesn't bother me so much as the lack of child support, student loans, credit card debt, first and last months rent, dependants, and other real life issues that keep the poor, poor. If I could've started from zero after college, I'd be doing pretty well right now. Instead, 10 years later I still owe 40,000 in student loans and am still paying credit cards that I haven't used since graduation. And I don't spend frivolously. I don't even own a biscuit joiner for Christ's sake! It's not like I bought a Domino with my grocery money!
There, we're back on topic ; )
-MJ
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I hear you, bud. I'm with you.
-Zz
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wrote:

I went back to school after I left the military (early sixties). There was no GI bill nor student loans. There were two jobs (waiter and gas pump jockey).
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I think almost all of these situations are self imposed. Kids are getting pregnant and the father (when known) has no means of supporting the child. The easy solution is to prevent pregnancy. Sutdent loans? No one is forced totake them out so when you graduate and get that 80k job, make the payments. You could have gone into the trades and made a good living without the loans. Credit card debt is 100% self imposed. I can't speak for the first and last month rent thing as I've never paid rent. I bought my first house when I was 20 years old. Oh, I did have dependents at that time also, but they were not children. I supported my mother and grandmother.

Evidently you valued your education enough to spend the money for it. I'd hope to recoup my college costs by getting a job that pays well in the future. If someone decides to spend a lot of money for education to become a social activist in a low paying job, that is there choice also. I went to a low cost state school and only took courses as I could afford to do so. Rather than live in a college dorm, I lived in my own house that was bought with my own money. We have choices.
If you are still paying credit card debt after 10 years you should be looking into better ways of managing debt. At least you have the backbone to pay your debts rather that join the bankruptcy craze to bail out of obligations.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

My hats off to you for all of this but I suspect that you had a different upbringing from most people, or perhaps an unusual degree of aptitude in some area in which most people are lacking.

Many people hope that. Some achieve it.

You really think that someone goes to law school intending to become a public defender (to take one example)? You take the best offer you get, if you don't get a good offer then you either take a bad one or starve.

Some people have choices, some don't. You apparently got a pretty good job early on. How many jobs that good are open to people today who have only high-school educations?

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J. Clarke wrote:

You join the army, save some money, put in your time, get your education benefits and then go to school.... Rod
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Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

And if you're 4-F?
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You check carefully, because there isn't a draft, nor draft physicals, nor physical classifications.
As I said earlier, a self-initializing individual with desire and effort will find a way, but it's sure difficult, after reading responses, to figure out why. If you are confident of failure, you'll find it, and if you lack a way to fail, or an excuse for failure, this bunch will find one for you.
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George wrote:

Seems to be symptomatic of our society as a whole; in our rush to be tolerant, understanding, and compassionate, we have, as a whole, developed a tolerance and sympathy for failure -- even if that failure is based upon poor choices made early on or a lack of drive or motivation. That's not necessarily bad in itself, but the corollary and conclusion that follows is that those who did not make poor choices but who sacrificed and exhibited drive and motivation are expected to not only pick up the slack for those who did not but also to share the fruits of their labors with them as well.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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Not to mention being branded as "privileged" or "advantaged" as if nothing they do or did counted for anything except greater tax liability.
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Amen.
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Paper route, lawn work, painting, dog poo poo pickup, run errands for old folks, local hauling (furniture, trash, etc), grease monkey (don't have to be a mechanic to grease cars) A lot of the problem young people today have is that while growing up they never learned any skills. By the time my boys reached 14, they could do a good job washing and waxing a car, changing the oil, paint, do lawn care, rough carpentry, replace a faucet washer, unclog a drain. By the time they were 16 they could do the foregoing and: lay bricks & concrete blocks, build a cabinet, apply roofing shingles and/or roll roofing, finish concrete, install ceramic tile, replace faucets. It might be worth mentioning that they never used drugs, smoked, sprayed graffiti, or any of the other myriad assortment of troubles young people can get into.
Max
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And them things we had can not be bought with any amount of money.
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wrote in message

Character?
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Max wrote:

Have you in the last 20 years or so tried to keep food on your table and save enough to take college courses doing any of those things?
And "dog poo pickup"? That's actually a _job_? _Where_?

And knowing how to do all that, can they turn it into income?

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Income? How about a great income if you want to be a handyman type and build a good reputation. Lots of cash jobs too.
I've know a couple of guys that never had a "job", but always had something going on and plenty of money. They did not socialize with the Chablis and brie crowd, but sure make a good living from them.
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What has the last 20 years got to do with it. My sons have done so.

I live in El Paso and there are several businesses who do that kind of business. There are also 2 sisters who borrowed the money to buy a long wheelbase van which they converted into a pet grooming mobile service. It wasn't long before they split the business and now they each have a van and use helpers.

Summer jobs mostly and working as helper for self employed plumbers, electricians, remodelers etc. (A little research will reveal that there are lots of self employed who work on weekends) It got them through college.

Well, J. Clarke, if you're convinced it can't be done, it can't be done. Plain as that. Here's a few suggestions. Go to a community college to get the basic courses (English, Government, Sociology, Math, etc) out of the way. It's cheaper at the CCs and the credits can be tranferred. The CCs have plenty of evening and weekend schedules. Once you're thru the basics, apply for financial help to pay for the tuition and books at a regular college/university. Keep in mind that you may have to attend evenings and weekends in order to hold down a full time job. It might take a little longer that way but where do you want to go? I should mention that there has to be a certain amount of desire to accomplish these things. Do you do woodworking. Can you build a few things to make some money, Adirondack chairs, picnic tables, cabinets, . I turn away lots of work because it's just a hobby with me but the demand seems to be there. If you're talking about your kids, can you teach them some skills? I know a guy who builds model trains out of wood and sells them for $300.
Max
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Max wrote:

Inflation, among other things.

They kept roofs over their heads and food on the table and saved enough for college doing that sort of work? In the last 20 years or so?

Pet grooming is not "dog poo pickup".

I'm not convinced of anything. But people seem to be awfully glib about what someone who grew up in a Welfare household can accomplish.

Where does the money come from?

If the course you need are offered evenings and weekends.

What I do is irrelevant. I'm not an 18 year old kid in the projects whose mother is on welfare and whose father is nowhere to be found.

I'm talking about the hypothetical kid in the ghetto whose single mother lives on Welfare.

Carves them out of pallet wood with a Wal-mart paring knife? If he needs more than that then it's not something that's open to our hypothetical poor kid.
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wrote in message

Tell me about inflation!! My first "full time" (40 hr week) paid 55 cents and hour. What's minimum wage today?

No, No. they didn't wait until they were married and had a family to support before they started working. That's just stupidity in it's purest form.

I know. There are more dog poo pickup services than there are mobile pet grooming services

I'm reluctant to cry about how I grew up but here goes. We lived in a cleaned up chicken coop for awhile. It was 20' X 28'. My mother was an alcoholic not to mention some other disgusting activities. My dad, a veteran of WW2, shot himself not long after his discharge. Most of the time I lived with neighbors, relatives, friends of my mother, and an assortment of others. I had paper route at 13, did janitorial work at a beauty shop at 14 while setting bowling pins evenings at a bowling alley where they didn't yet have auto pin setters. At 15, I worked at a Nash auto dealersahip for a guy who was one of the best bosses I ever had. On weekends I waxed cars for some of the customers of the dealership. (they "said" they admired my ambition and my quality of work). At 16, I was driving a Wrecker for the dealership. I realize that some of those opportunities aren't open to young people today but there are others for anyone who really wnats to WORK and is not just looking for a job.

The money for what? Haven't heard of the Job Corp? How come I know of guys who have just gottne out of prison and get to go to school taking courses in welding, refrigeration, computer repair ad infinitum. I'm sorry, my friend, defeatism is contagious. Determination is the key to success.

Have you even checked to see?

I remember a time when I would scrounge rafter cut-offs from construction sites to make wooden toys using a coping saw.

Max (that's it for me, your attitude is depressing)
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