OT: Apple, tree..not falling far from...etc

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I could look around his impoverished shack and conclude that concurrently he doesn't have the resources needed to produce and spray it on me since he's been under house arrest for more than a decade so fsck him. Why destabilize the entire neighborhood because he insists on grandstanding about poison in order to keep his neighbor I. Ran at bay...?
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So far so good.

Now you have gone off-point, as Iraq was NOT known to have poison gas in it's possession as of the Fall of 2002.

Again, off-point as Saddam Hussein did not declare that.

Now add:
The suspect and his house have been recently searched, no poison gas found. He is under surveillance.

One should always be concerned about someone with a criminal history. One should also always be concerned about one's own actions. When the person submits to a search of his house and his person and is under continuing surveillance it is perhaps not appropriate to start a fight with his family.
--
FF

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http://www.nysun.com/article/26514
Glen
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wrote:

BZZZZT. What followed was not a simile. You are NOT smarter than a 4th grader.
--
This Administration begs the question: WWJT?

_____
Owen Lowe
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Are you sick/ill today? Did your house burn down today? Did you total your car today? Will you ever die? Do you have health insurance? Do you have home owners insurance? Do you have auto insurance? Do you have life inusrance? Why have any of the insurance plans if you are not at this time experiencing areason to file a claim?

Probably but not as likely as something to hide.

If you will recall, the US has embassies and military installations all of that region. Those could be hit as easily as Iraq's neighbors.

And that is assuming that Iran's only had those type weapons. A nuke program bould have been disposed of like he did then he flew his fighter planes into Iran to keep them from being destroyed.

If that program is/was an on going process the weapons would ahve been current and the older outdated weapons recycled. Typically a nation does not build a weapon and stop, it continues and keeps them up to date. Who would know if the weapon was a dud or a live round? The Carter admistration used to relocate nukes in the US so that no one would actually know where or how many there wold be.
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As you will recall, US embassies in Tanzania, Kenya and Beruit and our Marine barracks at the Beruit airport were destroyed by truck bombs. I think you will agree that it would have been far more difficult to shell the building with enough artillery, or to drop enough aerial bombs on them to cause similar casualties.

I make typos too.
I haven't stated any assumptions about Iran. It is quite clear that Iraq had no nuclear weapons. It is not technically possible to hide a nuclear reactor or a functioning enrichment operation of the scale required to produce kilogram quantities of fissile material. I won't go into the technical details but keep in mind that Iran went public with what had been a secret program precisely because they knew they could not hide their activity once they began enrichment.

Iraq was atypical because the Iraqi factories were destroyed in the 1991 war, and the surviving equipment destroyed or confiscated by UNSCOM. As inspections were not permitted between 1998 and 2002 it WAS prudent to suspect that Iraq might have resurrected its programs.
I fully supported using the threat of military force to renew the inspection program. Because Iraq complied with the demand, and no evidence of nuclear weapons or any prospects for producing one in the foreseeable future, was found, I did not support the invasion.
If you feel that Saddam Hussein's past history alone was sufficient justification, what point is there to discussing the 2002-03 inspections at all.

There is no evidence that Iraq had enough fissile material to make a nuclear weapon. In 1998 when inspectors left Iraq there were 500 tonnes of yellowcake at Tuwaitha where it had been monitored by the IAEA since the late 1970's. When inspectors returned in 2002-03, it was still there, untouched, along with ~2.5 tonnes of low-enriched Uranium (reactor fuel) and other quantities of other isotopes either left over from the destroyed Osirak reactor project, or from various other projects.
Iraq had four years without inspections to use those materials and yet it did not.
When the US invaded, the Iraqi troops abandoned the facilty (after all, that is what we told the Iraqi armed forces to do if they wanted to live). THEN the site was looted. The US called in the IAEA to clean up the mess. All but a trival quantity of the yellowcake was recovered as the looters had stolen the barrels and left the yellowcake behind, dumping it on the ground. None to the other materials inventoried by the IAEA were missing.
--
FF


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wrote:

wrote:
It is obvious that you have more than just an inkling about these matters. In the power-generating business for a short, but intense career, I have to ask some obvious questions. Using your rationale about discoverability, can you explain Dimona? Does its secrecy explain nuclear thug-like behaviour and blackmail in the Middle East? If you KNEW that your religion was despised by those neighbours who already had nuclear weapons, AND knowing they have ambitions to expand their territory, wouldn't that in itself, be a motivator to get your own bombs? Using THEIR logic, why isn't Iran's nuclear ambition peaceful? Israel's is. Right?

what made them come over there). They threw their hands up in the air and walked away to fight another day THEIR way.... hence the civil war in Iraq. But, then again, as I have said before, what-the-fuck do I know?
<zips up Nomex suit>
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Could you specify what you would like explained?

According to these folks: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/dimona.htm
Israel began construction there in 1958, the US noticed the activity that same year and identified it as a nuclear facility within two years.
By the time of the 1967 war, it was publicly asserted that Israel had the capability of producing plutonium for at a rate sufficient to build ~2 nuclear weapons/year.
Israel is not signatory to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and therefore is not prohibited by treaty from making nuclear weapons, nor is it required to permit inspections.
The 'secrecy' in question consists simply of Israeli refusal to confirm or deny nuclear weapons production there.

My experience has been that Jews, by and large, do not despise any other religion. Mostly they simply don't give a crap about anyone else's religion. It's not their problem.
As for expansionist ambitions, Israel already relinquished occupied territory in Gaza and on the West Bank.
We don't know how many nuclear weapons are in the Israeli arsena,l but they probably have a couple of hundred fission bombs and a score or more of thermonuclear bombs. They have missiles with a 1500 km range. They do not have aircraft with the range needed to bomb Iran, but aerial refueling is a technology well- within Israeli capability. So if Israel wanted to destroy Iran, why haven't they?
Iran does not need a nuclear deterrent on account of Israel. Iran is the most populous nation in the region so that none of it's neighbors could reasonably expect to prevail in a conventional war with Iran.
Iranian nuclear weapons _could_ be used to deter US military action. More importantly, Iran is ruled by religious extremists operating behind a democratic veneer. Israel extremists seem pretty milktoast in comparison to the Iranian mullahs.
So no, the comparison between Israel and Iran is not apt.
--
FF

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I am afraid, Fred, you are going to argue with simple logic for the sake of argument. In this matter, if your trust in absolute evidence only by your own eyes over what many people consider common sense was not so sad, it would be comical.
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I don't think you are familiar with the concept of logic.
--
FF


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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:00:21 +0000, DS wrote:

Shipments like that involve many people. I find it hard to believe that not one has come forward.
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One simple explanation could be, SH told Syria, Iran, etc, come and get them. Neither of those countries are known as being forth coming.
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Are you high? Do you seriously think Hussein armed his enemies?
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Jeff wrote:

Iran did give safe have to Saddam's Air Force when the $#!+ hit the fan.
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They were happy to get free planes.
Saddam Hussein's warplanes were of no use to him, we could shoot them down as fast as he could get them off the ground, provided we hadn't destroyed them on the ground first.
Can you say the same about chemical shells and rockets that could be used?
Aside from that, why would the Iranians or Syrians want chemical weapons that were going to deteriorate to uselessness in a couple of months?
--
FF


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Hussein played that in a manner he thought most advantageous. His small air force did not stand a chance against the US but it could be played politically. He told CNN that Tehran offered sanctuary to the Iraqi planes in a gesture of Muslim solidarity. Baghdad was politically isolated and the well-publicized move provided him with an opportunity to dispense that notion. Rather than watch his planes burn on the ground, he moved them abroad for political gain. Tehran accepted them because A. they wanted free planes and B. they'll never turn down an opportunity to provoke Washington.
While Iraq's small air force was incapable of slowing US forces, the same cannot be said of this supposed arsenal of chemical weapons. Had it existed, it would have been useful in his hands and a threat in Tehran's possession. So, sure, he moved a small air force to Iran for what he felt was political gain but do you seriously think he'd arm Tehran with WMD so deadly they made Bush wet himself and they kept you up at night?
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You just answered you question.
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Case in point, in 1991 when Iraq did have WMD stocks Saddam Hussein did NOT move those out of his country. He did disperse them from their centralized storage facilities.
So, if the object of the invasion was to prevent WMD from falling into the hands of 'terrorists', it was a particularly bad strategy.
In fact, several sites with materials declared to and sealed by the UN were looted AFTER the invasion, including Iraq's primary nuclear research site, Tuwaitha, where ~500 tonnes of yellowcake had been safely stored under IAEA supervision for over twenty years.
--
FF

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end of the war. But he didn't.
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No, I was just paying attention to what was happening.
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