I don't either because the AUMF was needed to force Saddam
Hussein to accept inspectors. When those inspections showed,
conclusively, that Iraq had no nuclear weapons program any
notion that Iraq was threat vanished. Chemical and bioweapons
just aren't in the same category.
Saddam Hussein didn't just kill Shia Iraqis, he also killed Iraqi
Nonsense. It recognizes that Iraq's WMD infrastructure was destroyed
in the 1991 war and subsequent UNSCOM inspections. No factories,
no weapons. One of the key elements to understanding why Iraq was
not a threat was the short shelf life of Iraqi chemical weapons. With
the exception of mustard, they degraded to ineffectiveness in months.
Another key is to recognize that even with chemical weapons, Saddam
Hussein was never able to permanently expand beyond his borders.
By the time we invaded there was no credible evidence that Iraq had
nuclear chemical or biological weapons, or that production was
ANY nation with a chemical industry can make chemical weapons. That
Iraq had to potential to do so is virtually a tautology.
In order to do that, she'd have had to take a trip herself and validate
all the raw data. Outside of that, she just had to put her faith in the
intelligence experts. If she had read the report, rather than just
having the high points read to her, that would have verified nothing.
Yes. They are. They weren't just looking for nukes. Chemical and
biological weapons are considered weapons of mass destruction depending
on their payload and delivery system.
That's interesting. I'd like to read more from an authoritative source
about the shelf life of chemical and biological weapons. can you point
me to one?
I've read that many of the biological weapons (anthrax spores, etc) can
last many decades when stored correctly. But then again, I'm no expert.
Right. There are two reasons for that:
1 - Iran fought back. Otherwise they'd be annexed.
2 - Kuwait didn't fight back. They WERE annexed. Kuwait is not a part of
Iraq today because we went over there and forced them out.
The only reason that Iraq wasn't able to expand beyond their borders is
because two nations forced them back.
If we had been looking only for the capability to do so, then yes. But
that was hardly the case, was it?
Listen, I'm not pro-war. I want us out of there. But you're making the
same assertions made by all those who are bleating that W just WANTED a
war, that maybe he didn't get a pony on his fifth birthday and this is
his way of making up for it.
It doesn't hold water.
You've told us why there shouldn't have been a war. Why do you think
there is a war? Is it the pony thing, or the pleasing daddy thing, or what?
You left out one of many other possibilities. One of them being that W
sold his soul to the big guns of special interest groups, and the war
was pay-back time. "We'll get you the job, but once in there, you owe
The defense contractors, KBR, and many more 'big guns' have done
extremely well because of that war. Then again, you could be one of
those who doesn't believe The Carlyle Group exists or that they have
any influence in foreign policy. (Look at their BOD)
It has NEVER been different... follow the money. Who benefits?
The 5th birth day pony arguments, etc,....you are right, those do not
Another possibility is pressure from a religious lobby, to bring on
the New World Order that Bush 41 talked about.
What the hell do I know... but don't limit W's motives to simple
So he and Dick Cheney decided that killing millions would be a cool way
to make some extra cash?
Jebus made him do it?
Unfortunately, both sides of this debate over simplify what little
factual information we're allowed to see, then villify and ridicule the
other viewpoints until we're left with very little real information on
which to base our opinions.
I don't personally buy the military industrial complex made him do it
theory. There's been non-stop warring for every moment human existence.
It's a secure business to be in.
As for Jebus? Or Mo-Bomb-ad? Those may be more credible theories
considering what people are continuing to do in religions name.
I don't think The Decider decided anything. He had no choice. He OWED
When you sell your soul.... you OWE. He has no real feelings left.
Sold them. He's dead inside. Typical for a megalomaniac with an
Cheney on the other hand, is one piece of work. There is nothing I
would put past him.
I trust my gut feeling on that one.
You think only the people on one side of this issue are lying? I doubt
that. Seriously. Really. You realize I'm talking politics here right?
And I wish we knew what the facts really are. Point is, we don't.
Your doubts are well-founded. I don't think that. But clearly
one lying side had the power and made the decisions.
However, the point that Iraqi chemical weapons were short-lived
has never been disputed by any parties to the controversy.
The Bush administration never even tried to rebut that, they
jsut ignored the argument.
Have you any doubt at all that the yellowcake documents submitted
to the IAEA were forgeries?
Not off hand.
Can you prove that the yellowcake papers were lies purposefully
propogated by W, and not just bad information given to him as they've
I know you can't. Neither can I. We don't have access to the real facts
here. You can believe what you believe with all your heart, but
verifiable facts are in short supply.
Can you find anyone who has examined the documents and
said they were NOT fake? I know you can't.
Can you find any credible source who disputes the _central_
argument, that Iraqi chemical weapons were short-lived?
I know you can't.. Can you find many sources who say they
were short-lived? I know you can.
Yup. Here's one reference:
"However, of all the administration members with potential conflicts
of interest, none seems more troubling than Vice President Dick
Cheney. Cheney is former CEO of Halliburton, an oil-services company
that also provides construction and military support services - a
triple-header of wartime spoils.
"A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers awarded a no-bid
contract to extinguish oil well fires in Iraq to Kellogg Brown and
Root (KBR), a subsidiary of Halliburton. The contract was granted
under a January Bush administration waiver that, according to the
Washington Post, allowed "government agencies to handpick companies
for Iraqi reconstruction projects."
"The contract, which was not announced until more than two weeks after
it was awarded, was open-ended, with no time limits and no dollar
limits. It was also a "cost-plus" contract, meaning that the company
is guaranteed to recover costs and then make a guaranteed profit on
top of that. Its value is estimated at tens of millions of dollars."
If an advesary called you on the telephone and told you that he was coming
over to take your car and destroy it but he waited several months before
showing up to do so, given that you had months before he would show up,
would you hide it in a very safe place?
IMHO it takes about 2 cents worth of common sense to realize that with SH
having several months of warning that he would naturally hide his weapons.
I would. I think some that do not believe that are easily deceived.
I don't think they're that easily deceived. Hillary and the rest of the
congresscritters are generally smart people. Generally selfish,
egotistical, elitist people, but intelligent.
They spin all of this information to suit their political agendas and
aspriations. Both parties. They aren't the ones being deceived.
There was evidence of some shipments going to other sympathetic
countries, there were scientists that claimed to have been working on
chemical, nuclear and biological weapons research right up until the
time the Iraqi government shut their facilities down.
There isn't however, hard evidence gathered by our inspectors to verify
But as you said, given enough time, that evidence is not that hard to
get rid of.
I agree. They were afraid of being smeared as weak or disloyal.
There is evidence that Iraq's upper class fled the country on the
eve of the invasion. I find that unremarkable. If you have access
to information that Saddam Hussein moved his chemical weapons
infrastructure or even weapons themselves out of the country
please let us know what it is.
Which facilities and in what years were they shut down?
What evidence do you have that there was anything to hide?
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