OT Antivirus software

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On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:41:08 +0800, Old Nick <nsnsafemail#iinet.net.au> wrote:

You're confusing "popularity" with "vulnerability".
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But it is vulnerable Dave. Open source code makes it more vulnerable than proprietary code. It is a matter of poplularity at this point that makes *nix less attractive to the average adolescent with too much time on his hands. CERT advisories make it clear that *nix is certainly vulnerable.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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That's straight out of the Microsoft propaganda mill, and is laughable. The whole point of open-source software is the peer-review process. If you tried to check in something that was insecure due to intent, or due to just bad coding, (a) it gets caught, and (b) you lose credibility. I'd rather trust thousands of geeks who are trying to do it right, compared to one entity (Microsoft) whose motivation is profit. It's not just a theoretical difference; compare vulnerabilities of, say, OpenBSD vs. Windows XP. You might have trouble finding some for the former...

And yet, those vunlerabilities are usually a case of someone changing something in an unwise way, to expose the possibility of a hypothetical bug. Compare this to the trojan-of-the-week advisories that you're no doubt also seeing for Windows.
As another person here has posted, even if you exploit user or process-level security holes, you don't get system level access. This is in sharp contrast to Windows where the user and window manager run with system-changing authority. That fundamental difference is the critical difference. No matter how a Unix user screws up, or what they run, they can't hurt the system.
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Old Nick <nsnsafemail#iinet.net.au> wrote:

Even if true, the 'risks/damages' are _guaranteed_ to a much lesser degree.
out-of-the-box, without any 'hardening' -- User mail readers don't run with "system" privileges. The _windowing system_ doesn't run with 'system' privileges. Users (or viruses they unknowningly execute) cannot over-write *system* files
With only a -moderate- amount of hardening (2-3 hours of configuration tweaking) and the right SCSI drives, and I have systems where I will _give_ you the superuser password, _and_ access to the physical console, and the _worst_ thing you can do is cause the system to re-boot.
It _doesn't_ require 'rocket science'. Just healthy paranoia, *and* the right 'building block' tools.
Windows XP PRO is approaching where Unix was 15-20 years ago, in _that_ respect.
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Old Nick wrote:

That old argumetn remains false.
Remember the "Join the Crew" virus hoax? This was a chain letter sent around the internet from naive users. Basicly it said that if you got an email with "Join the Crew" in the subject line to had to delete it unread because if you read it, your computer would be infected with a terrible virus. Periodically system administrators hd to remind their naive users that you could not infect your computer by reading your email.
Then Microsoft discovered the internet and suddenly it became possible for viruses to spread just by reading email. Not satisfied with that, Microsoft went on to wirte email clients that would automatically infect your computer with emailed viruses even befor you read the email.
NO previous email client software had been written that would automatically and by default execute any executable it received in an email. Pretty much everyone else had realized THAT would be incredibly stupid.
There are a host of other mistakes made by Microsoft that everyone else had previously avoided right off the bat that Microsoft has made and still has refused to correct. Another classic that no decent programmer would make was the practice of updating the registry BEFORE installing a new module and writing the OS so it would not re-install software that was in the registry so that if the installation failed the user could not simply fix the problem by repeating the installation.
Then there is Microsoft's refusal to use CDS which assures the viability of buffer-overflow exploits.
And so on.
Yes, without Microsoftware there would be worms and viruses and definately there would be spam, but not like we have now.
--

FF


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I used McAfee for a while, but I never really liked the way it worked or didn't work. Once it is broken, it seems nothing can restore it to good healtn. I have been using Norton, and it works for me.
By the way, you also should use SpyBot Search&Destroy, Zone Alarm, and Ad-Aware to supplement whatever anti-virus program becase no program catches everything. These three programs are free. Jim
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I've installed AVG, Ad-Aware, Spybot and MS Beta Spyware Blocker on many systems with no further problems or slowdown. All can be set to run automatically and to update automatically.
Best of all - they are all free.
I do not like either Norton or McAfee for various reasons - suffice to say the combo I mention above is superior for various reasons, IMHO.
Vic
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nospambob wrote:

So far, you have used two that most people seem to have problems with. Here are some others...
Free AVG avast! (my personal choice)
Paid Kasperky (many feel it is the best) e-Trust (computer Associates...used to use it but dumped them because they would not honor their agreed upon renewal fee)
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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AVG antivirus, free, from www.grisoft.com is excellent. Same updates as Norton and McAfee, on the same days, good cleaning abilities, and automatic scans and updates are standard.
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wrote:

Oh Boy, this one is going to run for awhile.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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Tom Watson wrote:

I need to stain some cherry. Any suggestions? That should get us back to wood working.. LOL
Just designed a "mission style" end table -- gonna make it in cherry starting tomorrow or next day.
Promise to use Danish oil (Tried and True) or sumtin'. I swear Tom it's tru -- I will honest. The blood recipe didn't work. It went brown and hid the grain -- I actually tried it. :-) O'Deen was wrong. :-)
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
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Others have recommended AVG. Take a look at <www.gripe2ed.com> and do a search for "Norton" and "Symantec" Very eye-opening -- the comments from readers will list various alternatives to those two products.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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After four yrs. of McAfee, tried Norton. Better programs and have stayed virus free since.
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wrote:

Sounds like a timing problem (race condition)?

I love finding those.

My personal favorite is writing error messages like "There is no way that you should ever see this error message." But, you don't want an unhandled exception, even if it's "impossible".
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says...

The guy who wrote the Fortran IV compiler for the GE400 series of mainframes (Charles something-or-other) had, on the whole, very informative error messages. One, however, made me spew coffee all over the desk when I saw it for the first time.
"The compiler has gotten lost. There are a myriad of possible reasons."
--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

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highly doubtful. *Absolutely* reliable for occuring and at what location in any particular build.
It was just that inserting/changing the diagnostic instrumentation caused the location to migrate.
Also, hard to get a timing problem, with a single, self-contained, module that is merely doing a sh*tload of computations.

I figured that the next guy along deserved the information. Heck, he makes some trivial one-line change, and the "Heisen-bug" re-appears, and there he goes, trying to figure out how *THAT* change causes the error "somewhere *totally* unrelated" to what he did. Possibly even happens _before_ the program gets to the point where he made the change.

I did enough of those, I had a standard format for it: "Impossible error } Internal program logic error. Notify programming immediately!"
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wrote:

That's what we call 'Heisenberging the system' here. Change it's behavior by trying to figure out WTF is going on.

True, that.

Ah, OK, so that's not a unique term. Figured it couldn't be.

And people wonder why IT folks drink.

Very nice. I should expand my error message vocabulary accordingly.
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