OT: A trillion dollars

Page 2 of 3  
Mark & Juanita wrote:

No, it is not--greedy bankers don't get *all* the blame but they certainly deserve plenty of it. I watched interviews with former employees of S&P who admitted their company rated securities that were so far outside their computer models that the ratings amounted to blind guesses. But they weren't about to refuse to rate these securities because they were worth an average of half a million bucks each to S&P. So securities packed with rotten mortgages went out the door rated AAA purely because it was profitable to do so--care to explain how that was the fault of Congress?
And if there was no problem with these securities why did those selling them feel the need to in effect insure them? Of course nobody called it that because then they would have needed cash on hand to cover the insurance, and they didn't have that--so Credit Default Swaps were born. That's why AIG is in such trouble, they created a whole new division whose only job was insuring financial instruments. Does it make sense to you that AIG *knew* they were insuring securities full of mortgages that would default, or is it more likely the investment firms that cooked up the rotten securities were gambling on an eternally hot housing market and AIG was dumb (and greedy) enough to cover that bet?
The financial industry went on a decade-long bender. Since there was nobody to stop them they invented more and more bizarre ways to make more and more money, there just wasn't an adult in the room to turn off the music and call an end to the party.

And yet that's what happened, we know it happened because there are too many people who tried to sound the alarm and were ignored, they're still there to remind us. There is also a steady supply of former employees of banks and other mortgage sellers reporting how they were encouraged to inflate incomes and otherwise qualify people for loans they would never be able to repay--are all these people lying about this? And it happened in part because he who moved the most paper made the most money. How else to explain a mortgage salesman who won bonus after bonus by signing up people just released from prison even though most of them failed to make even the first payment on their new house? I heard that straight from our CPA, but maybe he just made it up huh?
Hey, if you want to see the banks and investment houses as innocent victims in this (Madoff and Stanford are just aberrations), cool, have a good time with that. I can't wait for the criminal prosecutions to really get going, there's going to be a lot of former masters of the universe in the joint in the next few years. Who knows, lock up enough of them and maybe their replacements will run a straight game for a decade or so.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DGDevin wrote:

The problem with your argument is that the stock market is forward looking. If the market thought that The One's plans were going to lift the economy, even in a more distant future time period, the market would have,at a minimum, stabilized. Instead, the market tanked. Every time Obama has made a statement, the market tanks some more -- there are a number of examples of days in which the market was staging a rally and either he or a member of his administration made a comment (e.g. "Profit and Earnings Ratio") and the market retreated. That's a vote of the market's confidence in the current administration, not an opinion of any previous administration.
Another good gauge of confidence in this administration is firearms sales -- through the roof. Nobody who had two brain cells to rub together believed Him during the campaign when he made that stupid statement to his followers to "get in peoples' faces and tell them that I support the second amendment". The election can be viewed as the firearms and ammunition manufacturers recovery act of 2008 -- after his election guns and ammunition began flying off the shelves. Those people of course were right, this administration has some of the most radical anti-second amendment members that have ever been appointed to an administration, starting with Attorney General Holder who has actually made the statement that the federal government has the authority to disarm state national guards (which completely nullifies the lefties normal goofy interpretation of the second amendment).
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mark & Juanita wrote:

See, you started off so well, and then you had to indulge in childish posturing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ummm... Devin, I just read your other post. Come clean. You got that off last night's news, didn't you? Did you even once open the cover of a finance textbook?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
MikeWhy wrote:

I've been following this story for awhile, the interviews done by shows like Frontline and even (brace yourself) 60 Minutes with people who were in the thick of it have been eye-opening. "The Devil made me do it" has never been an acceptable excuse to me, financial institutions that told their own employees to shut up and get with the program do not now get to claim really it's all the fault of Congress. Which is not to say Congress has no blame of course, taking away the rules was a big part of what went wrong, but then the banks lobbied for the rules to be removed, didn't they.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DGDevin wrote:

Until your argument includes the CRA, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac loosening of credit rules to support "affordable housing" and includes Barney Frank, Chris Countrywide Dodd, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelik, et al you have no credibility by seeking to cast this blame solely upon the banking industry.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mark & Juanita wrote:

You're missing the point Mark. The establishment politicians (both Ds and many Rs) want this to be a problem in the private sector. Having corrupted capitalism with their malignant politics, they are now turning on it as the culprit to further solidify government control of ... well, pretty much everything.
The banks bears some blame, of course, but they are the third order effect here. The first order cause is a government not only deficit spending, but doing so at an acceleration greater than that of the GDP growth for decades. It is the public - the mooching, lazy, greedy, give-me-something-for-nothing sheeple that are at the heart of this problem. They are the ones instructing the government - indeed *demanding* - to give them "free" stuff.
No one can fix this until and unless individual citizens decide that being self-reliant and personally responsible are important values. Given that about half the population is now picking up some- or all of the tab for the other half, this seems unlikely. Even here, among people generally known for their creativity and hard work, you've seen screaming when it's suggest that everyone is responsible for themselves. I've been called selfish, greedy, and worse for insisting that people take care of themselves or appeal to private charity rather than using the government's gun to make other citizens pick up the tab.
Our descent into hell continues with Obamamessiah as the locomotive engineer ...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

Sigh. Yeah, I know. You forgot to include the fact that the main stream media are happily going along with this charade, thus enabling the demonization of the private sector. Unfortunately, true journalism is dead, if it ever existed at all. The media just doesn't seem interested in digging past what the majority party leadership is saying.

While what you say is mostly true, the fact that there are politicians who are not only willing, but eager to pander to this sector has led us to this point.

When that number reaches less than half paying the freight for more than half, the tipping point will have been reached. The 51+% of those not paying will insist on more and more from the 49-% paying the bill. They will be able to accomplish this through their majority in the ballot box. Eventually, the 49-% will throw up *their* hands and stop the effort to excel. That will lead to a tightening downward spiral. Evidence of this is already to be seen: people leaving California because of onerous taxes that are being assessed to pay for those not working and benefits for illegals. In New York City, roughly 40,000 people are paying the bulk of taxes for the city. The mayor has come out opposing increasing taxes for fear that those 40k people will decide enough is enough and leave the city for some place that will allow them to keep more of the fruits of their labors.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mark & Juanita wrote:

Please quote me seeking to cast blame solely on the banking industry.
<crickets>
I would have thought, "Greedy bankers don't get *all* the blame but they certainly deserve plenty of it" indicated I didn't exclusively blame the financial industry. And frankly until your argument includes the reckless greed of that industry as part of the equation then your own credibility is less than you might imagine. Did you happen to see Bernanke interviewed on 60 Minutes last night? PhD in Economics from MIT, appointed Chairman of the fed by Bush--he referred in plain language to the reckless gambling companies like AIG indulged in, is he talking through his hat?
If the situation weren't so serious it might be amusing to watch the ideologues of the left and right blaming each other for the economic meltdown, unfortunately the situation is damn serious and unlikely to improve much for years IMO.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Revealed by US Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. from Minnesota before the US Congress sometime during his term of office between the years of 1907 and 1917 to warn the citizens.
"We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance. The Farmers Alliance and Knights of Labor organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha Convention to be held July 4th (1892), our men must attend and direct its movement, or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome. This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination ( conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When through the process of the law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.
History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished."
Revealed by Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. to the U.S. Congress sometime between 1907 and 1917.
================
All of us outside the castle walls are harvested for our efforts. Time for a Tea Party.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

Please provide a cite for this other than IAmReallyHigh.com. About 60% of the stuff was from the Dems, the other 40% was from the Rs. They are *all* revolting little political pigs with their fat snouts in the wallets of the (fewer and fewer) people that still wish to work.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
: Robatoy wrote:
:>> DGDevin wrote: :>>> Tim Daneliuk wrote: :>>>> But it only took the Obamessiah and his evil henchmen Pelosi and Reid :>>>> a mere few weeks to do so... :>>> So how long did it take from the final version of the $700 billion TARP bill :>>> being passed by Congress until Bush signed it? I'll save you the trouble of :>>> looking it up, it was a matter of a few hours. :>> And how many hours did it take obama to sign the pelosi pork bill? Did :>> you notice that this last 400+ billion spending bill obama hid in his :>> office?:>> :>> To paraphrased what he said: I plan to eliminate earmark spending and :>> will give the American people 5 days to review any spending bill before :>> I sign it.:>> :>> One of many promises already broken. :> :> He never said that, that kind of paraphrasing is misleading. That was :> McCain who talked about eliminating pork. Obama pledged to "reform :> pork" spending. :> 25 out of 28 recipients of pork in the last bill were Repuglicans. :> Try to get it right. : Please provide a cite for this other than IAmReallyHigh.com. : About 60% of the stuff was from the Dems, the other 40% was from the Rs.
http://www.slate.com/id/2213556 /
Six of the top 10 earmarkers are GOP, including the #1 and #2 spots.
         -- Andy Barss
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Andrew Barss wrote:

I guess this is one of those "you have to be specific" kind of things. My understanding is (and I could be wrong) that about 60% of the *number* of earmarks came from the Ds, the rest from the Rs. Your cite argues that the top 10 earmarks in *dollar amount* come from the Rs. OK, but that doesn't speak to what *percentage* of the total pork this represents. Then there's your claim that "25 of 28 recipients" were Rs - and still no substantiation of this.
I'm not defending the Rs here - they're morons for participating in this stuff. But you folks who happily carry water for the Left have demonstrated a disturbing tendency in the past decade of being disingenuous and outright deceitful in some cases when reporting things that require the use of numbers.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You might as well be talking about yourself. Considering how you post absolutely zero in the way of woodworking content, it's obvious your only purpose here is to troll. And, when some topic doesn't attract sufficient numbers, you don't hesitate obfuscate a fact or topic to cause further controversy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Upscale wrote:

Well, I'm at least talking to you ...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Keith Nuttle wrote:

You mean the Obamessiah is a scummy political liar? Say it ain't so.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I rebuilt my system recently and thought I had gotten everything back the way it was supposed to be. Apparently not everything, I forgot to put you back in the bozo bin. I'll correct that now. Bye.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
CW wrote:

It means so much to me that you took the time to let me know. I'll sleep better now.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DGDevin wrote:

Yup, just as bad.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

--
> Tim Daneliuk =A0 =A0 snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
> PGP Key: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.tundraware.com/PGP /
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.