OT - $4/gal Gas Threshold Crossed - Dam Breaking

Speaking of gas and silk purses and sows ears and the like I felt like Elliot Ness for a while today--I had occasion to chase down a '30s

16-cylinder Cadillac. Guy had left his gas cap off and every time he went around a corner it spilled several bucks worth of gas on the road. I figured he'd want to know.

Incidentally, the pictures don't do that car justice, and neither do museum displays.

Reply to
J. Clarke
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If it makes you feel any better, THANKS!

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Reply to
B A R R Y

I don't think "The Market" should dictate EVERYTHING. "The Market" is driven by MONEY - and has a very. very short term and very narrow view of things. And money has no loyalty to anyone or anything. Most significant, it has no morals, no scruples, no ethics, no "human values".

In the early 70s, when the first Arab Oil Embargo took place, and gas lines formed and we had "Alternate Days" gas rationing - though it was never called "gas rationing" - and "Detroit" kept insisting THEY COULD NOT make energy efficient automobiles - AND make a profit, and continue to insist they "just made was Americans wanted" - ven though they spent hundreds of millions in advertising to persuade US consumers they "needed and wanted" BIG, HEAVY, AMERICAN (the Stars and Stripes waving in the back ground).

"Detroit" got it's ass kicked - by "little cheap Japanese" cars. They HAD well over 95% of the US auto market - and they blew it. Their response - the Chevy Nova, the Ford Pinto - neither very good products and not competative in price or performance with those "little cheap Japanese" cars.

Took them a while, but Lee Iacocca came up with the mini-van, which let Chrysler, and then the other US Auto Makers cling to their old ways - by slapping a new body style - on a TRUCK.

And while that slowed the slide, the slide continued - and while "Detroit's" repackaging once again of what is basically a truck - the Sport Utility Vehicle - the Hummer being the poster child for "We STILL Don't Get It" - allowed them to continue to tread water - they're going to go the way of the dinosaur - not because US Auto Workers can't compete - if they have the products to make - and the tooling to do it.

Let's get real here. An overwhelming majority of big powerful vehicles - with four wheel drive - NEVER leave the road. And IF 10% of the trucks sold EVER carry a load of wood, or rocks or hay or manure, or tow a trailer on a semi regular basis I'd be astounded. If you need to haul a bunch of stuff or a heavy load - on those four or five occassions a year - RENT A PHREAKIN' Stake Side - with a lift or ramp.

OK - so lets trot out The Farmers and The Ranchers - they NEED a Real Truck - which is the arguement "Detroit" made to keep the CAFE Standards where they've been - for 30 phreakin' years. Well heads up folks - the family run farm or ranch is becoming a fond memory, replaced by AgriBusiness which doesn't use consumer "pick up trucks" because they're to limited in capabilities and carrying capacity.

Tried getting UP into the SUVs out there today? Or into and out of most of the cars out there - "Detroit" models or any of the host of other passenger cars out there? This has nothing to do with Energy Efficiency.

When "The Cheap Imports" started kicking "Detroit's" ass - it was "Detroit" that begged and pleaded - and got - Federal Excise Taxes on "imports". There was no mention of "let the free market" decide things.

The Japanese - and the Germans - didn't have ANY competative advantage over US Auto Makers when they entered this market. In fact they were at a significant disadvantage. BUT - they had a better product - and US consumers confirmed THAT with their auto purchases.

There is a HUGE "Green" market developing - and we are going to be dragged kicking and screaming - into the 21st Century - like it or not.

Those who do not study history are condemnd to relive it - over and over and over again.

charlie b

Reply to
charlieb

And still want them. If you don't like it that doesn't alter the fact.

And the "little cheap Japanese" cars didn't do well in the market. Eventually the Japanese figured out what the market wanted and started selling it. But it wasn't particularly little or particularly cheap.

Thus moving the station wagon (remember them) outside of the CAFE standards. Very clever move. And soccer moms need station wagons.

The Hummber? Developed by AM General in South Bend Indiana to a US Army requirment? And later sold to the public because the public demanded it? Waht exactly does it have to do with "Detroit" "getting it"? If anybody doesn't "get it" with the Hummer it's the Department of Defense--if you don't like Hummers take it up with _them_. Aside from lacking armor though, they seem to be doing just fine at what the Army bought them for.

So what?

I'm not sure I understand your point here. Seems to me that you want "Detroit" to keep making trucks, you just don't want anybody but rental companies to buy them. Well, I'm sorry, but the manufacturers don't have that kind of control. Are you suggesting that legislation be enacted forbidding individuals from buying trucks or something?

The CAFE standards that apply to the cheap little cars that you seem to favor are different from the ones that apply to trucks. The CAFE standards could be changed to require that cars get ten million miles per gallon and that would have no effect whatsoever on trucks.

You don't live in Connecticut, do you?

Well, actually it does. You need a certain amount of volume in order to fit a certain sized person. Volume requires structure and affects frontal area. Structure adds weight. Frontal area adds drag.

Well, actually I think that that had more to do with a level playing field--Japanese labor costs then were very low compared to the US.

And unlike Detroit, the Germans cannot meet the US CAFE standards and pay a tax every year on their gas guzzlers.

So where does one read this history of automobile manufacture?

Charlie, quite frankly between this and your Adobe problems most of which result from your refusal to make an online purchase you're coming across as nuts.

Reply to
J. Clarke

There are two factors for gas prices:

First:In 2000 Bill Clinton signed a Bill the Commodities Futures Modernization Act (that exempted from regulation energy trading on electronic platforms) with the "Enron Loophole" enclosed by Phil Gramm. It allowed trading to shift from the regulated NYMEX to ICE (Intercontinental Exchange) and unregulated Exchange. As ENRON was now allowed to trade Utilities, Oil is now in play! As Energy prices went through the roof, the Bush Administration strongly supported and backed ENRON.

In reality futures trading in an unregulated exchange isn't the problem itself.

Second: President Bush decided to invade a large Oil rich nation for apparently no valid reason. This act created technically the "shortage", of the supply and demand mindest of economics. This in conjuction with the ENRON Loophole, allowed Speculators and Wall St. Hedge Funds to go hogwild. When Goldman Sachs speculates oil may reach $200 a barrel by December... only put's more money in their pockets and thus out of your pocket into Wall St's.

Please Note that the Current Farm Bill Vetoed by President Bush in May and also opposed by Sen. McCain, would have ended the ENRON Loophole. It's apparent that when you family business is the oil business, profit stands before the people!

BUT!

What's actually is far far worse is... Carbon Credits! Now "Green" is a hot item and technically a good thing for the world overall. What no one wants you to know is that the Carbon Credits are traded unregulated.

Yup! This can raise the prices of EVERY CARBON BASED PRODUCT and tax even HUMANS themselves. Wood, food, fuels everything will be basically Carbon taxed and then speculated on credit pricing just as oil is!

Things are bad now will most certainly get FAR FAR Worse!

Reply to
Vz

Act (that exempted from regulation energy trading on electronic platforms) with the "Enron Loophole" enclosed by Phil Gramm. It allowed trading to shift from the regulated NYMEX to ICE (Intercontinental Exchange) and unregulated Exchange. As ENRON was now allowed to trade Utilities, Oil is now in play! As Energy prices went through the roof, the Bush Administration strongly supported and backed ENRON.

I don't know if it's my news reader or your writer, but the above line comes out as one long, long line when I read it. If others have the same problem you might want to check your settings.

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

It looked fine when I read it initially, but when I went to write this reply his statement became one single line without wrapping. I had to tell my reader to rewrap the message.

I'm guessing it's a combination of both his writer and your reader.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Friesen

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