Optimal length of lag screws

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krw wrote:

http://www.nssn.org/search/DetailResults.aspx?docidX4179&selnode ASME     American Society of Mechanical Engineers Document #:     ANSI/ASME HST-4-1999 Title:     Performance Standard for Overhead Electric Wire Rope Hoists Scope:     Establishes performance requirements for electric wire rope hoists for vertical lifting service involving material handling of freely suspended (unguided) loads using wire rope with one of the following types of suspension: (a) lug, (b) hook, (c) trolley, (d) base or deck mounted, and (e) wall or ceiling mounted.
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Thank you, though like most such specs, it's not freely available.
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Keith

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krw wrote:
...

Even winches that do have brakes or locking mechanisms won't be rated for overhead lifts unless they actually are designed as dual-purpose.
Examples...
Winch --
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200320251_200320251
1500-lb AC powered
From the product description...
"Features an all-steel planetary geartrain, dynamic and mechanical brake and circuit breaker protection"
Sounds just fine, doesn't it?
Read the conditions in the manual for the same winch--
9. NEVER USE YOUR WINCH FOR HOISTING APPLICATIONS OR FOR LIFTING OR MOVING PEOPLE.
10. Your winch is not designed or intended for overhead hoisting operations.
You'll find that universally so for all but a very tiny fraction (if any, I actually don't know of a dual-purpose one made, simply left it as a possibility that it could possibly be although it would then actually be a hoist, not a winch).
Hoist for comparison...
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342848_200342848
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<snip>
Your examples look like a Mercedes and VW. The Winches and Hoises I was looking at had a cost differential much closer to 1.5:1 or 2:1 vs. 10 or 20:1.
<snip>

They probably say they're not to be taken internally too... ;-)

Point taken. The mounting hardware on the hoists looked a lot skimpier, to me, than the winches.
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Keith

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krw wrote: ...

Suit yourself, but the difference is in the style and purpose and design, primarily of the braking systems.
Winches simply are _not_ overhead lifting devices.
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Requirements to overhead lifting devices depend on whether it is a job situation or not. They are all required to have a load holding brake, however.
Note that not every lift is an overhead lift. For instance, if you lift a pallet with some machine into your trailer, it is not an overhead lift.
That said, chain hosts are very cheap and buying one is a no brainer. Approximately $80 buys you a new 2 ton rated chain hoist that is approved for lifting applications.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumberc1
I have one such hoist, it is slow, but it works fine. It has a brake that applies if any pulling effort is released. I used my hoist to lift a Bridgeport mill once. It worked okay.
I think that "men with tools" need a variety of material handling equipment. I have a "engine hoist" aka shop crane, a lever hoist that I use for pulling, a chain hoist for lifting, and an assortment of chains, chain shorteners, etc
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Ignoramus21403 wrote: ...

... Which was the alternative I recommended...
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ignoramus21403@NOSPAM.21403.invalid says...

It's only a 10' lift, which I found common for chain hoists. A 10' lift isn't going to do it. Twice that buys a 1300lb. electric unit with a 25' lift.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber2954

The heaviest thing I'm interested in is a table saw (600lbs. total) and that only once. It would also be nice to lift plywood and sheetrock to finish the area.

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Ignoramus7553 wrote:

I agree w/ Lee the way to do this is w/ a through connection.
Lags aren't reliable enough for the job at hand and aren't intended for tension loads at all and certainly shouldn't be used for lifting scenarios.
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I would use bolts and bottom plate lag screws would be silly. If you do use lag screws get video of the first lift,

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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:49:02 -0500, Ignoramus7553

Define "wood cart", please.. especially the material it's made of..
It seems to weigh 200 pounds? Will the lag bolts be in a 2x4" a 4x4" or maybe 1/4" ply? Why specifically 5/15" lags?
mac
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three 2x12 6' long. Three crossmembers, at front, aft and rear, 2x10s. The crossmembers are attached to lengthwise 2x12s by means of wood glue and screws.

Maybe 150 or 170.

Lag bolts are 5" long, 5/16 in diameter, there is four of them, screwed into those 2x12 and 2x10s.
This is for pulling, not lifting.
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Ignoramus6193 wrote: ...

In which direction?

Same problem -- load isn't as great, but it's still a safety issue if it pulls out while somebody is behind the ramp.
It's not at all an optimal design choice and it would seem essentially trivial to make the lags machine bolts, ideally w/ the plate also on the back side.
Note the pulling resistance of lags is only slightly over the weight from the calculator posted which provides essentially a safety factor of 1.0 -- again an indication you're under-designed.
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*snip*

*snip*
One thing to consider is that with lag bolts you have to drive the entire bolt in. At 4" long, that's a lot of driving to do. Conversely, with machine bolts (such as carriage bolts) all you've got to do is drill a through hole and attach the nut.
Just something to think about as you get to building. On my ice rink last year I switched after the second lag bolt to carriage bolts and got the thing assembled.
Puckdropper
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On 2008-09-21, Puckdropper <puckdropper> wrote:

I used an impact. It was not a problem. I think that I would not hesitate to use this ring for general pulling of this around the yard, but when it comes to winching it into the trailer, I may attach a slig somewhere else.
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Ignoramus6193 wrote:

Yes; use an impact wrench, just be careful that you don't twist the shaft in two when you do.
Dave N
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I drilled pilot holes. So driving these screws took only a couple of minutes. You guys convinced me to not use it for winching it up the trailer ramps. Otherwise using it for general moving about, should not be a problem.
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Quite so!
I had to read a few posts to realise you were talking about coach screws but the new work bench I'm currently building (When I'm not being distracted by other things) uses a few. They are 10mm by 80mm and you drill a pilot hole just the same as for an ordinary screw, then just "wind them in" with the speed brace from a socket set.

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Ignoramus6193 wrote:

It sounds like the glue joint would have to be end grain to long grain making it just about useless. What do you suppose the shear strength of the screws are for the cross member that the "lifting eye" will be attached to?
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Jack Novak
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It is long grain to long grain, if I understand you correctly. One board under another but perpendicular.
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