Quite so!
I had to read a few posts to realise you were talking about coach screws but the new work bench I'm currently building (When I'm not being distracted by other things) uses a few. They are 10mm by 80mm and you drill a pilot hole just the same as for an ordinary screw, then just "wind them in" with the speed brace from a socket set.
Look here:
This (or any) design idea can't be meaningfully analyzed without at least a drawing (clear sketch)("worth 1000 words") of the configuration and loading directions envisioned. I suspect that each of your respondants has visualized something different. Generally, I too tend to favor bolts with nuts and washers. When all is said and done, the orientation and integrity of the proposed weld in the ring could still prove to be the weak link.
David Merrill
I do not have a picture at the moment. The cart is made of three 2x12
6 ft long boards (lengthwise boards), and three 36" long 2x12 boards running perpendicularly to the 6 ft boards, under them.============================== ###### ###### ######
You are viewing these boards, such that you are seeing the long side of the top boards (depicted by ========), and only the cross section of the crossmember board, depicted by ######. If you now turned that T by 90 degrees, you would see
====== ====== ====== ####################
The weldment comprised of a 1/4" plate and eyebolt looks like this
!! !! =========
or
/~\ \ / =~~~=
or
====!!==== ==o=!!=o== ====!!==== ==o=!!=o== ====!!====
The steel plate is roughly 6x2x1/4. The eyebolt is roughly 2" in diameter, 5/8" thick. The holes in the 1/4" plate are depicted by letters "o" on the last picture. They are 5/16" diameter and accommodate 5/16 by 5" long lag screws.
The top two lag screws are parallel to the grain of the top board. The bottom two lag screws are perpendicular to the grain of the bottom board.
I am least concerned about the weld.
i
Ignoramus15296 wrote: ...
Those two are in end grain and they're essentially worthless in tension.
You don't have nearly enough "beef" in the attachment. As long as you're only dragging it around on the ground all that will happen is it stops following, but you definitely have a serious hazard when/if you try to get that off the ground.
That isn't exactly the orientation I had envisioned as you're dragging crossways of the "runners" below instead of with them which will be the most friction you can have. I'd suggest two things...
Using your artwork,
---| ====== ====== ======|O
dpb wrote: ...
Actually, something that would work nearly as well and let you even use the lags (where I'd not complain too much :) ) would be
using an angle. Then the lags at both the top and the bottom are out of the end grain and the primary loading is lateral as opposed to in the withdrawal mode, a much more secure arrangement.
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What's the difference? A winch rated for 1000lbs. has to pull with
1000lbs. force. A hoist has to pull the same force. Obviously I'm missing something basic here.The "attaching it to" is easy. A few 2x12s can easily support a
1000lbs, once the interface problem is solved. ;-) The floor has to support the same load.I thought of using something simpler since moving the tools is a one-time (maybe two ;) thing. I figured that once I solved the difficult problem of the tools, materials would be a piece of cake. I also need to get a pile of plywood (flooring) and sheetrock up there. Carrying any of this stuff through the house won't impress SWMBO. The fallback position will be to keep the big tools in the garage and move partially finished stuff upstairs. This doesn't sound like a lot of fun though.
Winches for pulling don't have the safety locks for overhead lifts hoists do...
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dpb wrote in news:gb9j3t$7fl$ snipped-for-privacy@aioe.org:
Some winches don't even have a brake on them, so when you turn it off the line is allowed to go slack.
It might be like the distinction between a rabbet and a dado. At their most basic, they're a groove cut in wood. They have distinct properties, however, that make one more useful than the other in certain situations.
Puckdropper
Ok, that makes some sense, at least. Hoists automatically have safety locks? What sort of locks?
krw wrote: ...
The ones that don't drop loads on your head... :)
Even winches that do have brakes or locking mechanisms won't be rated for overhead lifts unless they actually are designed as dual-purpose.
Examples...
Winch --
From the product description...
"Features an all-steel planetary geartrain, dynamic and mechanical brake and circuit breaker protection"
Sounds just fine, doesn't it?
Read the conditions in the manual for the same winch--
You'll find that universally so for all but a very tiny fraction (if any, I actually don't know of a dual-purpose one made, simply left it as a possibility that it could possibly be although it would then actually be a hoist, not a winch).
Hoist for comparison...
Ok. ;-) Is there anything, written in stone, what these locks have to be? Is there a way of determining what they are for a given hoist? Specs? Standards?
I'm certain there are many Standards and, of course, in the US, OSHA rules. What any are, specifically, by number I don't know; not my field. I don't think there are requirements on the braking mechanisms themselves, per se, only that they perform the required specified function in a failsafe mode.
Look at the two links I posted earlier that point at a typical winch and overhead hoist to get an idea of the difference in equipment (and note relative costs).
The general definition, however, holds--winches are for pulling and hoists are for raising.
While there are lots of folks who ignore such rules and many winches do have brakes and locks that are designed to prevent backsliding, they aren't intended for overhead lifting and such usage is risky at best.
It's a lesson learned in the electric utility business where lifting is common, often complex and serious. It's no less serious for an individual w/ a 50-lb load above them--it'll kill just as readily.
For a home shop kind of thing you mentioned, unless you have budget, I'd go w/ the manual chain hoist myself rather than the power option.
A good block and tackle works, but isn't nearly as risk-free or convenient.
Your examples look like a Mercedes and VW. The Winches and Hoises I was looking at had a cost differential much closer to 1.5:1 or 2:1 vs. 10 or 20:1.
They probably say they're not to be taken internally too... ;-)
Point taken. The mounting hardware on the hoists looked a lot skimpier, to me, than the winches.
krw wrote: ...
Suit yourself, but the difference is in the style and purpose and design, primarily of the braking systems.
Winches simply are _not_ overhead lifting devices.
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Requirements to overhead lifting devices depend on whether it is a job situation or not. They are all required to have a load holding brake, however.
Note that not every lift is an overhead lift. For instance, if you lift a pallet with some machine into your trailer, it is not an overhead lift.
That said, chain hosts are very cheap and buying one is a no brainer. Approximately $80 buys you a new 2 ton rated chain hoist that is approved for lifting applications.
I think that "men with tools" need a variety of material handling equipment. I have a "engine hoist" aka shop crane, a lever hoist that I use for pulling, a chain hoist for lifting, and an assortment of chains, chain shorteners, etc
Ignoramus21403 wrote: ...
... Which was the alternative I recommended...
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I would think there would be pointers in the literature ("meets xyz789") but I see nothing.
I did, but the two aren't comparable for many reasons. One is a commercial/industrial unit and the other is a homeowner's unit. Such makes for bad comparisons.
I understood that. The difference obviously isn't the force, so I asked specifically *what* the difference was. You've done a decent job of explaining the difference. I only want a bit more information ao I know what to look for (or forget the whole thing).
I wouldn't be lifting anything over my head, though wouldn't much like to see a $2000 saw break my garage floor either. ;-)
Sounds like a RPITA to lift 10'-12'. Most I've seen don't have that sort of lift.
Sounds more risky than a winch.
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