One for the "Pet Peeve" catagory

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I'm using some Accuride 3832 draw slides in a face framed cabinet.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&sku 99#moreinfo
To make things simple I planned to center the slides on the drawer and also center the slides in the 4" high opening to align the drawer. For face frame use these slides require the use of Accuride's "Face Frame Bracket Kit".
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&skuV90&cs=1
I just checked the spec's on the spacing for the mounting holes for the front bracket. They are 2.35" (59.7 mm) between the holes or 1.175" (29.85 mm) from center.
Has anyone ever seen a ruler where inches are broken down to decimal? Smart thinking Accuride.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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In typed:

Yep. Got one with decimal, fraction and metric.
or you can try this. http://users.erols.com/mazel-18/stocks/fdchart.html
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wrote:

decimal inches is standard for aircraft stuff.
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Yes. I have several in lengths from 6" to 18". Smallest division is .010.

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very common Starrete and mititoyo make very fine squares that run from 6 inch to 36 inch
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You have a metric part with original dimensions of 60mm and 30mm. The US importer has probably 'helpfully' converted these exact measurements into useless imperial values, and rounded them to boot.
Use a metric ruler.
Regards, Chris
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moved upon the face of the 'Net and

Quite likely. Or a part that was originally dimensioned in inches, converted to metric, and back to inches, with roundoff errors creeping in along the way. We have a lot of that where I work, thanks to an enthusiasm to convert to metric some years ago followed by an enthusiasm for a new inventory database that wanted everything in imperial units(*).
John
(* we used to measure linear stuff in inches, which worked well. Then we did it in cm, which also worked well. The new system wants everything in fractional feet, which is absurd.)
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Suppose it'd make more difference if:
1. The rule was really calibrated that accurately
2. The lines were really scribed rather than screened
3. I could count such lines even with a magnifier
4. I could keep a drill from sliding around the odd latewood ring into the softer early
5. I didn't have a calculator.
Hell, it's 1 1/8 "fat" in my head

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I have been using a tape measure for the last year or so in which the inches are broken down in decimals. I like it a lot. It makes a lot more sense to me.
Dick Durbin Tallahassee
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This could revive the metric versus imperial thread. Ed
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Years ago there was a great amount of pressure in the company that I worked for to express all measurements in metric. Unfortunately, I was working in business forms where standard paper sizes were 8 1/2" x 11", and computer printers (and typwriters, remember these) printed 10 characters per inch horizontally and 6 lines per inch vertically. These measurements were impossible to use when converted to metric to 6 decimal places. There where no rulers that could be used to measure such units. We stuck to our guns and our pica rulers, which were calibrated to the measurements we needed to use.
There are many rulers or scales out there calibrated in many different units. My favourite is a printers scale with 1/10", 1/6", 1/12" as well as standard 16ths. If you want to get real fine you used a points/pica scale which was divided into 72 units per inch with 12 points per pica, and 6 pica per inch.

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where
and
use.
Like "em's" and "en's"? :)
One of my most fortunate opportunities was to work as a Print Devil. The shop was a odd-mix of technology. Two linotypes, still operational; the old pulleys, that ran the presses, still on the cieling; a computerized typesetter in the corner; typewriters and word processors, old Kluge platten presses next to a small web press; etc.
One of my favorite jobs was, after a hand-set, putting the type back into the distribution box - noting that the space for some letters ('e', 't') were larger than others. Least favorite had to be melting the lead type to reform the ingots for the Linotype.
Old Bob used to joke that he could read upside-down and backwards better than forwards.
I remember watching that darned Linotype for hours, still an amazing work of engineering.
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Especially when they were invented over (I think) a hundred years ago.

old
platten
to
of
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Actually an "em quad" and an "en quad". :) (for the uneducated, 2 "en"s == 1 "em".)
The literal dimension of which varied according to the size _and_ style_ of type employed.
So, "no", rulers were _not_ calibrated in such units. Although some kinds of spacing were called out in those units.
Not to mention the ambiguity issue if one tried to employ those "units" at a point where to dissimilar fonts adjoined.

The correct job title is "printer's devil". "Devil" actually being an archaic word for 'assistant'/'helper'.
I never actually _worked_ in a letter-press shop, but my folks -bought- a lot of printing for their business, and us kids often got to tag along when they went to the printers. And _were_ allowed into 'shop' areas, as long as we stayed out of the way (both of the equipment, and the people :) The Linotype room was a favorite visiting spot. :)
The shop where they bought most of printing was a sizable operation. IIRC, they had 6 Linotypes, with at least 3-4 of them manned most of the time. 3 shifts. Probably 50+ people in the press-room. I think about the _only_ kind of a press they didn't have was a web. Heck, they even had one of the ones like you see in the old Westerns -- lay the sheet of paper on the type frame, and crank the big wooden windless to press 'em together. They _used_ it regularly, too. For pulling 'proof' pages, for customer approval, before the job went on the high-speed presses.

Heidelberg rotary presses were fascinating to watch, too.
I think it was a Kluge, where the sheets passed barely-over/through a line of flame, just before settling in the output stacker.

This shop did enough typesetting that they had an automatic melter/reformer, As well as an extruding machine for generating filler bars. The melter ran full-time.

Type slugs read upside-down *or* backwards, not both. It's a 'mirror image' of what hits the paper. I found reading upside-down easier/faster than reading right-to-left.

One heck of a gadget, aren't they? _all_ mechanical. Rube Goldberg would be green with envy. Not so much fun when a font matrix jammed, way up there on the traveller, and somebody had to climb up there an manually un-jam it.
There _is_ at least one *still*in*commercial*operation*, today.
BTW, you're _strongly_ encouraged to look up an old science-fiction short story called ETOAIN SHRDLU The title should give you an idea of the content.
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Sorry, a _real_ "pica pole" does -not- have 72 points to the inch. "True printers points" vs. inches is -not- an exact relationship. 72.27 points for one inch is a 'good enough' approximation for almost all real-world work.
_Most_ modern computer-based composing systems do use a 'fat point', where there _are_ exactly 72 points to the inch.
The difference is _just_enough_ to screw things up, if you're not aware of it, and doing precision printing.
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If that is the case, then "true printers points" are not accurately defined. What you are describing is an approximation and, that being the case, the notion of "precision printing" is nonsense. A precision approximation? What's that? Is it is similar to a smidge? Maybe closer to a gnat's ass?

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That's exactly right. They're *NOT* defined in any 'theoretical' manner. They are _measured_.
Oddly enough, when you measure something, there is 'uncertainty' in the results.

Yup. I've seen "approximations" of the relationship, out to 15+ decimals. Which, even so, claim to be nothing more than approximations.
6 sig figs is generally sufficient to reduce the 'error' to the level of 'undetectable by the unaided eye', over reasonable (for printing purposes) spans of distance, i.e. to around 30 inches. 72.27 pt/in is sufficient for 8-1/2x11 work, to the same standard.
Try doing 8' wide wall charts, and you find you _do_ need extra precision to deal with 'cumulative errors'.

As usual, Clinton, you know not that of which you speak.
*MEASURE* the side of a square, and it's diagonal. Now, tell me, *exactly* how much longer is the diagonal than the side? No uncertainty for measurement error, not an 'expression' as the difference of two theoretical terms, just the simple, single quantative value that is an _exact_ answer. Can't do it? Then, by your logic, the notion of a 'square' is nonsense.

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Are you trying to be an asshole or are you really that stupid. You say that your system can not be defined by a known standard. If that is the case, there is no standard. The increments on your scale won't necessarily be anything close to the next guys scale. Why would it be if there was no standard? Just put a couple of marks on a scale, any distance, it doesn't matter, and call it a printers point.
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_everything_ looks like crap to him -- wrote:

Oh, OH, OH!!!! He _almost_ gets it. There _are "a couple of marks" on a reference; said marks _do_ constitute the "official standard". The distance between those marks is a pica (_by_definition, a point is 1/12 of a pica). No math, no theory, no 'definition' in terms of other units -- an actual _physical_ standard.
Just like the present-day definition of the kilogram, and the pre-1965 definition of the meter. Or the pre-1967 definition of the liter.
Until roughly the 1960s, the 'state of the art' in measurement was such that one could _compare_ two physical distances with a higher degree of precision than one could, for example, count wavelengths of light.
The printing world simply _hasn't_needed_ a more precise 'definition' than "a couple of marks" on a reference, "Comparative" accuracy of a 'copy' can be determined to about 1 part in "ten to the tenth" power, using only 1950's technology. In an environment where the difference between exactly 72:1 and 72.27:1 _usually_ doesn't matter, an 'error' of one or even two orders of magnitude greater than 1950's 'state of the art' is far smaller than what could affect any 'real-world' printing task. An approximation error of one part in ten-to-the-eighth, translates to an error of 1/10 of a point (approximately 10/7227 of an inch) in a distance _in_excess_of_ a fifth of a mile.
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you know Robert, what I find hilarious is that you, as a person so well versed in the typesetting world over punctuate to the point that your writings are painful to read.
wassap wit' that?
    Bridger
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