Old sander broke. What do I want?

[Gene Tracy]

The absolute best one ? MILWAUKEE ! I've got a DeWalt and a Porter Cable and they don't come close . Incredible as it seems , the MILWAUKEE cost $69.00 and comes with a case .

[Robatoy]

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Das ist ein Deutsche Konspiracy!!!

[Steve Turner]

I've been watching this thread with interest, and I'm really intrigued that no one has mentioned air power. A couple of years ago a fellow woodworker turned me on to Dynabrade sanders and they're such a joy to use that I've all but thrown away my electric sanders:

or more specifically: models I'm familiar with are the "Dynorbital-Spirit" and "Dynorbital Supreme".

Both styles use PSA (stick-on) paper which I've found to be cheap and easy to use (even though most people here seem to dislike it), and with a little double-sided tape you can use almost any sandpaper you danged well please.

But arguments about the style of sandpaper aside, it's the FEEL of these babies that will get you hooked. They are *much* lighter than their electric counterparts, and their low profile and center of gravity practically makes fatigue a non-issue. You do need a fairly substantial air compressor to run them (the Supreme eats a LOT of air; the Spirit is not nearly so hungry), but if you have the air power I would give these sanders serious consideration. Lots of power, and the speed is infinitely adjustable (up to the maximum of 12,000 RPM), first with an adjustment knob to regulate the incoming air pressure, then on demand by varying the amount of palm pressure you apply to the main lever.

An excellent example of a quality American made product built to last a lifetime, but the company also offers parts and repair kits if you do manage to wear something out.

[Charlie Groh]

...I'd say Milwaukee simply on the basis of every other product of theirs that I own...goooood stuff. That said my 5" ROS broke down the other day (it's a Porter Cable and has been worked to death...RIP, it did a good job!) and I ended up combining a couple of trips and stood in front of the Home Depot display. I walked out with the Rigid (for

69 bux)...curiosity drove the purchase (I know Rigid makes a pretty decent product, so was reasonably sure the sander wouldn't be *bad*), got it home, hooked it up and was pleasently surprised...at least I know it's a step or two above my dead PC. I like the ergonomics and the speed adjustment was a nice, new (to me!) touch. Takes 8 hole paper but I've been using universals for awhile so that was no prob...

cg

[Puckdropper]

Greg Guarino wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I've been using a B&D mouse as my primary sander. It's low vibration, and uses hook and loop sand paper. The big selling point when it was new was the shape, as it comes to a point in the front to get in to corners.

There is no dust collection at all, but other than that it's a pretty decent tool.

I built a sander out of an old lathe, and initially used PSA sand paper with a pine backing board. It worked great until I wanted to change grits. I figured once the paper is removed it's not worth trying to get back on. So a short time later I upgraded to a H&L replacement disk.

Puckdropper

[Lew Hodgett]

As you note, air supply is the issue, in the range of 15 SCFM.

For a typical home shop with only single phase power, a 5HP,

240V,1PH,60HZ motor driving a 2 stage compressor setting on a verticl 80 gal tank.

PRICE: About $1,200 + installation which will require a 2P-40A c'bkr and #8 AWG minimum, (#6 AWG preferred)..

It gets pricey in a hurry.

Lew

[Greg Guarino]

That's a new one on me. I assume you mean that it holds well, but lacking both dogs and knee-height screens, I can't be sure.

Thanks to all for the great info. A high traffic group like this is a real boon to a hobbyist with more questions than skills.

I now feel confident that a ROS with hook & loop will suit my needs. Thanks especially to the person who explained why H&L is functionally superior to clamped plain paper.

Greg Guarino

[Leon]

Did you miss the opening statements,

I'm not a real woodworker, but every once in a while I build a shelf unit or some other "box with face frame" level of project.

[Leon]

Now that you have made your decision, let me also warn you about hook and loop and PSA sand paper. ;~) Because this type sand paper wears out on the business side and not all over it is often difficult to determine when to change out to a new sheet. Clamp on paper often simply falls off or tears and that is your indicator. With the PSA and hook and loop papers the minerals typically wear out and the paper may appear to still be in very good shape. Even worn out minerals can look brand new especially if you use an attached vacuum. Several ways to determine if you need to change sheets.

1. Does the sander seem to not be working as fast?
2. Have you been using the paper more than 15 minutes?
3. With your finger rub the mineral surface of the paper you are using and compare its sharpness to a brand new sheet, same grit.

If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will last longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn out after a period of sanding. This is one trait that I had a hard time getting use to when I switched to Festool sanders and use the vac at the same time.

[Dr. Deb]

I concur with Phisherman. I bought a Milwalkee random orbit sander with hook and loop, or my wife did for my birthday, a few months back. My only complaint is, "Why didn't I do this years ago!" I have a Dewalt palm sander than now is like "Mr. Mop" on the Swifter commercials.

Deb

[Robatoy]

The Home Depot Ridgid line is spotty at best. For instance, their 6" ROS, the 2610, was made by Metabo in Germany and is an excellent sander. It was superseded (improved????) by the 6" 2611, which by all accounts sucks canal water. They look very similar, but it is another typical example of some MBA in some engineering dept came up with a 'better' way to make an extra few dollars per sander by sending the job off-shore. Conversely, Sears Craftsman had a router built by Bosch which is a good router, not cheap, but a good piece of equipment. You just have to learn to flip over rocks and see what crawls out from under.

[Robatoy]

Hear hear on the Milwaukee products. Porter Cable is a mere shadow of its former self, mostly inferior stuff these days. DeWalt is also highly overrated in my opinion. Both those brands meant something 20 years ago, now they're marketing companies. The spot those guys filled back then are now handled by the Festool, Fein, and Milwaukee brands, with a few others. True professional grades. I absolutely love Milwaukee routers... especially the big fella.

I wonder how much money I have spent figuring some of that out. The other day, I was at my old shop, and looked at the 25-year old Porter Cable production router. All cast, big heavy brute. Then they were replaced with the 'new 4.2" motors, and they weren't so great anymore. Then they dropped another couple of plasticized notches. Now they're good for 6-months to a year. Not 3-5 years. (Keep in mind these run all day.)

[Leon]

My first indicator is that it seems to take a bit longer to get the job done, I feel the work. Then I pick the sander up and feel the paper.

and 2) aside from the

Probably better dust control, the supply of suction is endless. Next, the sander pretty much stays clean, even when sanding something like face frames when the sander hangs over the edge of the work. A warning however, you may need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a must. You can have too much suction and that will actually work against you. You want just enough suction to keep the area clear of dust.

YMMV. Festool sanders blow air through the center of the paper out to the outer holes which suck up the dust.

[Upscale]

I was wondering about that. For the past twenty years, I've used a small Makita pad sander. I've just recently bought a DeWalt orbital 8 hole sander with attached dust collector (which I have yet to use).

1) I was wondering if through experience (feel, touch, sound, whatever) one can realize that it's time to replace the sandpaper and 2) aside from the small dust collection bag becoming filled, is there any greater benefit to connecting it to a shop vac instead?

[Steve Turner]

Well no, but since when have people in this forum ever refrained from going off on a tangent? :-) This thread's already full of that...

[dpb]

Lew Hodgett wrote: ...

...

I've never found a catalog number for H&L for more than 50/box at Klingspor (nor for Mirka from Woodworkers Supply or others as well) -- that's part of the problem making the price differential ime.

It does seem that the differential isn't as great as was from a number of years ago when were going thru so much, though...hard to believe that was 5 years ago now--where _does_ the time go??? :)

--

[Robatoy]

[Steve Turner]

No way. I've got a single stage compressor with a 60 gallon tank (3HP,

220V) and with the "Spirit" sander in continuous use the motor on the compressor only runs about 20% of the time. With the "Supreme" the motor runs quite a bit more, maybe 60% of the time. Granted, that's more compressor than the average home shop probably has, but it's not THAT out of the question. I can run the Spirit on my small Porter Cable compressor, but it does keep the motor running pretty much continuously.

A compressor equivalent to the one I'm using is a common item at the Borg, and they "only" cost about $500.

But I really wouldn't expect somebody to consider a Dynabrade sander as a replacement for an electric unless they already *have* a decent air compressor.

[Greg Guarino]

I'm sure I'll need to develop a new "feel" for a new type of tool, but even with my modest skill set, it was only in my laziest moments that I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as typing paper only lengthens the job.

Thanks again.

Greg Guarino

[Steve Turner]

Shit disturber. :-)