Old sander broke. What do I want?

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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'm sure that's useful for the OP who was self-described as an infrequent woodworker... :)
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"dpb" wrote:

The O/P's issue wasn't consumption, but rather cost which is the turn our conversation had taken.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Actually, OP only raised the cost on the initial purchase--which is where the point I made that H&L is more expensive than PSA came from--and on which I said it probably doesn't make a lot of difference _UNLESS_ there's high consumption but it is a factor to consider.
And, yes, I'll agree take lashes about the 50% number if it makes you feel better...
--
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"dpb" wrote:

How many?<grin>
Lew
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dpb wrote:

Doesn't mean he doesn't have a business license. One doesn't have to have a _woodworking_ business to have a business license.
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I have several sanders: Milwaukee 6010 orbital 1/2 sheet Makita BO4556 1/4 sheet Porter Cable 7336, 6" ROS, (PSA) Ridgid 26001, 5" ROS, (hook & loop) Ridgid 2611, 6", ROS, " " Bosch 3727, 6", " " " Milwaukee 6021-21, 5", ROS (H & L) plus belt sanders of various sizes.
The sheet sanders, bought before the ROS were widely available, rarely gets used. The Milwaukee ROS gets the *most* use. The Porter Cable is the most aggressive, (I believe it's because the abrasive sheet is more firmly attached, but that's just MHO) I *think* you would be most satisfied with the Milwaukee 6021 (but that's just MHO)
Max
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Greg Guarino wrote:

Here's an orbital sander for $12.00 that uses regular sand paper. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber@070
Here's a hook-and-loop palm sander for $13.00 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber622
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NO not too small. I have been using that size for 20+ years. Random orbit sanders can ve very agressive so large is not needed to cover a large area quick.

You want to up grade from regular paper. Why! Because regular paper will never fit as tightly as hook and loop or PSA backed paper. Why is this improtant? Becase all of the action og the sander and paper is transmitted to the work. Regular clamp fit paper tends to permit the sander pad to not transfer all the action to the paper and work. In many cases the paper will simply grab the work and let the sander vibrate on the back side of the paper and often the only work being done is when you are moving the sander.
Hook and loop is prefable if you dont wear your sand paper out before changing grits. If you use only one grit and always remove the paper after a day of use, PSA, Pressure Sensitive Adhesive sand paper is cheaper. Hook and loop is probably your best bet.

Porter Cable, DeWalt

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*cough*....) . . . :-)
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wrote:

Milwaulkee makes an excellent ROS. Small projects, small sanders, Big projects, big sanders.
There are ROS that use self-sick sandpapers. The hook-and-loop type is better for changing papers quickly and better at being reusable.
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I'm gonna defend PSA paper a little bit here. A "good quality" PSA paper is no harder or slower to replace than a Hook & Loop paper. For many years I used 3M PSA paper exclusively, I got it for free. The body shop guys would not have put up with a hard to replace paper had PSA been a PIA to use.
After leaving the automotive business and loosing my free source for 3M paper I switched to Porter Cable paper and it was just as easy to deal with.
Then as per the advice given here, recommending Klingspore paper, I bought a roll of PSA disks. That stuff was CRAP! It sanded well but I now know why so many consider the PSA paper a PIA to remove. Klingspore offered no help. I just knew that I had a bad roll, apparently not. Good PSA paper "does not" need a peel off separator to keep the adhesive from sticking to the pieces below.
Oddly I now only use H&L or until Festool makes pads to accept it.
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Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.
The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door, some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.
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"Robatoy" wrote:
Then there is that little known problem that Hook & Loop and Velcro do not always play nice together. I seem to recall, there is also a third player in the H&L business, again, a wee bit different.
The Festool H&L grabs Mirka Abranet like dog snot to a screen door, some of the pads on other sanders, such as Ridgid, not so much. The Lee Valley replacement hook pad, doesn't hang onto all papers either.

If you do any work with a foam pad, you are stuck with PSA, with 3M "green stikit" being the best.
Lew
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:25:13 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

That's a new one on me. I assume you mean that it holds well, but lacking both dogs and knee-height screens, I can't be sure.
Thanks to all for the great info. A high traffic group like this is a real boon to a hobbyist with more questions than skills.
I now feel confident that a ROS with hook & loop will suit my needs. Thanks especially to the person who explained why H&L is functionally superior to clamped plain paper.
Greg Guarino
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wrote:

Now that you have made your decision, let me also warn you about hook and loop and PSA sand paper. ;~) Because this type sand paper wears out on the business side and not all over it is often difficult to determine when to change out to a new sheet. Clamp on paper often simply falls off or tears and that is your indicator. With the PSA and hook and loop papers the minerals typically wear out and the paper may appear to still be in very good shape. Even worn out minerals can look brand new especially if you use an attached vacuum. Several ways to determine if you need to change sheets.
1. Does the sander seem to not be working as fast? 2. Have you been using the paper more than 15 minutes? 3. With your finger rub the mineral surface of the paper you are using and compare its sharpness to a brand new sheet, same grit.
If you buy a sander with a port to use with a shop vac your paper will last longer and most likely your paper will look fine although it may be worn out after a period of sanding. This is one trait that I had a hard time getting use to when I switched to Festool sanders and use the vac at the same time.
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I was wondering about that. For the past twenty years, I've used a small Makita pad sander. I've just recently bought a DeWalt orbital 8 hole sander with attached dust collector (which I have yet to use). 1) I was wondering if through experience (feel, touch, sound, whatever) one can realize that it's time to replace the sandpaper and 2) aside from the small dust collection bag becoming filled, is there any greater benefit to connecting it to a shop vac instead?
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wrote in message

My first indicator is that it seems to take a bit longer to get the job done, I feel the work. Then I pick the sander up and feel the paper.
and 2) aside from the

Probably better dust control, the supply of suction is endless. Next, the sander pretty much stays clean, even when sanding something like face frames when the sander hangs over the edge of the work. A warning however, you may need to clamp down small pieces, variable speed on the vac is almost a must. You can have too much suction and that will actually work against you. You want just enough suction to keep the area clear of dust.
YMMV. Festool sanders blow air through the center of the paper out to the outer holes which suck up the dust.
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On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:22:25 -0500, "Leon"

I'm sure I'll need to develop a new "feel" for a new type of tool, but even with my modest skill set, it was only in my laziest moments that I waited for the paper to actually tear before I replaced it. It's self-defeating laziness too, leaving on a piece that's as effective as typing paper only lengthens the job.
Thanks again.
Greg Guarino

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Hey, consider the benefits. You get to go from sanding to polishing non-stop. :)
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