Old Norris Plane


I have come across an old Norris plane. The metal body is quite badly rusted. What is the best method of cleaning it up? Any help and advice would be appreciated.
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fhobson wrote:

It's obviously not worth bothering with. Mail it to me and I'll get rid of it for you (no charge).
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On 21/07/2005 3:21 PM, fhobson wrote:

Rust eraser?
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&p509&cat=2,42194,40727
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What's the difference between a "Rust Eraser" and a normal (3M/Norton) foam sanding block?
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On 21/07/2005 5:17 PM, Andy wrote:

The 'erasers' have abrasive right through. I don't think the 3M blocks do, although I've never used them. Aren't they soft, effectively sandpaper bonded to a piece of foam?
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Rust eraser maybe somthing like pumice rock? It is hard but wears out?
--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
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yeah... read it.
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Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
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fhobson wrote:

Do a Google or Altavista webwearch on "electrolytic rust removal" I've done this on many planes, though never on a Norris, that looked TERRIBLE and always had very good results. Practice first on some rusty piece of scrap.
You do not have to remove the wood before de-rusting. You can first clean the wood as you would if restoring a peice of furniture and then coat it with vaseline to protect it during derusting. I've done that with a pad saw that had split nuts I did not want to try to loosen holding the blade to the tote.
Good luck.
Oh, By the way, you found a Norris? You suck!
--

FF


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On 21 Jul 2005 13:04:31 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

Imust regrettfully with part of this - separate the wood if at all possible. If not possible,follow the above plus wax it well before applying the vaseline. Then reduce the concentration of your electrolysis soultion by 50% and just run it longer. It does work.
To the second staetment above, I can only concur, in spades!
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Tom Banes wrote:

Oh, I quite agree that it is best to remove the wood, just doubt that this will be practical with a badly rusted Norris. It is likely that the metal in contact with the wood is NOT rusted. If it is, the rust expansion has probably locked it in and in any event the rust will probably hide the location of the pins Mr Norris used to anchor the wood, at least it will until after it is removed.
--

FF


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On 21 Jul 2005 15:50:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

Valid point taken. I stand admonished.
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Tom Banes wrote:

No, no. You pointed out what I had omitted to consider.
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:21:02 +0200, "fhobson"

For a Noris there's only one way - electrolysis. Ideally use wet pad electrolysis, rather than dipping it. There's wood and bronze in there, neither of which appreciates being left soaking. You can't take them apart either, as they're flush riveted.
If you do tank it, do it in a clean tank (i.e. not full of old rust) and have sufficient depth that the plane is well clear of the bottom of the tank. You can also shellac the wood beforehand to reduce staining, especially if it's beech (which will rust stain).
If you have engine turning on the sides (rare, but desirable) then be very careful about cleaning it up! Don't use abrasives.
Which model is it ?
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Get a gallon or two of white vinegar. Immerse. Check every 24 hours. Maybe use a bristle brush to dislodge the rust that doesn't float away. Bob AZ
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If the sole is badly rusted, it is very likely that the shaving aperture will be irregular. If you file it straight, it will become too wide for the work for which Norrises are intended.
Unless it is for display, why bother?
Jeff G
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fhobson wrote:

recall who posted it so as to give proper credit.
Glen
Get yourself a cheap battery charger, a stainless steel rod, some (Arm&Hammer "washing soda" (can be found in the laundry section of most grocery stores is sold as a "detergent booster"), and a plastic pail full of water, a non-abrasive nylon scrubbing pad, a roll of paper towels, and a tin of carnuba paste wax.
Throw some washing soda in the water and swish it around to dissolve it. Connect the rusty object to the - Terminal of the charger and place it in the water, connect the steel rod to the + terminal and submerge it in the water (make certain the two objects _cannot_ touch each-other... turn the charger on and witness the bubbles. after a few hours the water should be pretty disgusting, wherever there _was_ rust will now have a black film on it. Wipe the film off w/ the nylon scrubber and dry it _immediately_, apply the paste wax according to directions on the container. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a couple of requests for this recently and there are a lot of new subscribers, so here 'tis again. I hope I have covered all the points so we don't start the thread again.
Q. What is the method? A. A technique for returning surface rust to iron. It uses the effect of an small low voltage electric current and a suitable electrolyte (solution).
Q. What advantages does the method have over the old standbys, like vinegar, Coke, muriatic acid, Naval Jelly, wire brushing, sand blasting etc.? A. These methods all remove material to remove the rust, including un-rusted surfaces. With many, the metal is left with a "pickled look or a characteristic color and texture. The electrolytic method removes nothing: by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.
Q. What about screws, pivots, etc that are "rusted tight"? A. The method will frequently solve these problems, without the need for force, which can break things.
Q. Is it safe? A. The solutions used are not hazardous; the voltages and currents are low, so there is no electrical hazard. No noxious fumes are produced. The method is self-limiting: it is impossible to over clean an object.
Q. Where did this method come from? A. Electrolysis is a standard technique in the artifact restoration business. I wrote this up for the Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association a few years back. Most of the tool collectors around here use it:
Q. What do I need? A. A plastic tub; a stainless steel or iron electrode, water and washing soda (NOT baking soda!!) and a battery charger. About a tablespoon of soda to a gallon of water. If you have trouble locating the washing soda, household lye will work just fine. It's a tad more nasty--always wear eye protection and be sure to add the lye to the water (NOT water to lye!!!) The solution is weak, and is not harmful, though you might want to wear gloves.
Q. How long does the solution last? A. Forever, though the loosened rust will make it pretty disgusting after a while. Evaporation and electrolysis will deplete the water from the solution. Add water ONLY to bring the level back.
Q. What about the iron electrode? A. The iron electrode works best if it surrounds the object to be cleaned, since the cleaning is "line of sight" to a certain extent. The iron electrode will be eaten away with time. Stainless steel has the advantage (some alloys, but not all) that it is not eaten away.
Q. How do I connect the battery charger? A.THE POLARITY IS CRUCIAL!! The iron or stainless electrode is connected to the positive (red) terminal. The object being cleaned, to the negative (black). Submerge the object, making sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily rusted objects.
Q. How do I know if it is working? A. Turn on the power. If your charger has a meter, be sure come current is flowing. Again, good electrical contact may be hard to make-it is essential. Fine bubbles will rise from the object.
Q. How long do I leave it? A. The time depends on the size of the object and of the iron electrode, and on the amount of rust. You will have to test the object by trying to wipe off the rust. If it is not completely clean, try again. Typical cleaning time for moderately rusted objects is a few hours. With heavily rusted objects can be left over night.
Q. How do I get the rust off after I remove the object? A. Rub the object under running water. A paper towel will help. For heavily rusted objects, a plastic pot scrubber can be used, carefully. Depending on the amount of original rust, you may have to re-treat.
Q. My object is too big to fit. Can I clean part of it? A. Yes. You can clean one end and then the other. Lap marks should be minimal if the cleaning was thorough.
Q. After I take it out, then what? A. The clean object will acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in a warm oven or with a hair dryer. You may want to apply light oil or a coat of wax to prevent further rusting.
Q. Will the method remove pitting? A. No. It only operates on the rust in immediate contact with unrusted metal. What's gone is gone.
Q. What will it look like when I am done? A. The surface of rusted metal is left black. Rusted pits are still pits. Shiny unrusted metal is untouched.
Q. What about nickel plating, paint, japanning and the like? A. Sound plating will not be affected. Plating under which rust has penetrated will usually be lifted. The solution may soften some paints. Test with a drop of solution in an inconspicuous place. Remove wood handles if possible before treating.
Q. How can I handle objects that are awkward to clean? A. There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a cavity in an object; using a sponge soaked in the electrolyte with a backing electrode to clean spots on large objects or things that shouldn't be submerged (like with lots of wood)
Q. How can I dispose of the solution? A. The bath will last until it gets so disgusting that you decide it is time for a fresh one. There is nothing especially nasty about it-it's mildly basic-so disposal is not a concern, except you may not want all the crud in your drains.
Q. Can I use metal containers? A. This is highly risky. Galvanized metal can introduce zinc into the solution. If you have used lye, it will attack aluminum. You may have problems with electrical shorts, etc. Stick to plastic.
Q. How can I clean odd shaped objects? A. Be ingenious. Plastic PVC pipe and eave troughs, wooden boxes with poly vapor barrier.
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