Okay, I'm a believer

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Oh, Crapsman 1.5HP router with 1/4" collet, how do I hate thee?
Let me count the ways.
I thought it was just me. I thought it was a myth. But alas, tis true. The Crapsman 1.5HP router with 1/4" collet is truly a piece of sh*t. At least the two I've seen/used in the last week.
I JUST went into my garage to pump some iron and thought I'd double check to be sure (since I am a newbie at routing) that I was cutting against the bit blade - not with. I fired up the router for .5 seconds and saw the rotation and it was correct. I knew my problem (at least one problem) was that I was trying to cut too much at a time.
Then.... I said "why don't I try to zero the bit depth (calibrate) which I had never tried and so I lowered the bit to try and even it w/table top but before it went parallel with the table top the whole router dropped out of the holder! I saw why. In the time it had taken to install the bit and rout about 8 feet of wood, the bit had slipped about 1/2" out of the collet!
I unscrewed the collet nut and pulled the bit out. I took the nut completely off and the collet sides were squeezed together to where they actually touched and the top of the collet was irregular looking as if someone had tightened a collet nut around it (hehehehhehehe).
I am no physics guru but if the collet is already touching itself and I can pull the bit out (although it was a tad tight) then it won't ever be tight enough to hold the bit securely - even during ONE PASS OF ROUTING.
The bit slipping caused my cut to deepen and fluctuate even on a piece of wood less than 2 ft.
I am convinced. I doubted but now I've seen the light. No, I am not a Crapsman Hater Fundamentalist but I sure hate the 1.5HP router with 1/4" collet now that I've spent 2 days with two of them. God.... to think that I spent 2 days just trying to get the first one working only to discover the collet was defective!
Question: Is it ethical to sell a Crapsman 1.5HP router with 1/4" collet to another human being? How could I, in good conscience, sell it knowing the bit is slipping as much as it is?
Or, is this all my imagination and I just didn't tighten the collet nut enough?
Anyway, w/o the table and guard I can see that as being very dangerous.
I guess I can take it back to S... S... Sears (aghhhhhhh!) and demand a refund due to the bit slippage and claim it doesn't work as advertised and then take that $ and invest in one of those PCs.
Sigh..... I tried.
Tim
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:34:13 GMT, "Tim Simmons"

I was faced with the same dilemma - the answer was no. The two Sears routers sat in my office for two years (they did not belong in the shop as they are not woodworking tools).
There are a number of things you can do with Sears routers. Here is Steve Wallace's classic solution:

Steve was the creator of the "ARHA" term.
When I was faced with the same dilemma, I finally broke down, swallowed my pride and asked the wreck. For the answered, see the following thread on Google:
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=i3dtav08cne182nntdm6nodt1ciiguu713%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dethics%2Bgroup:rec.woodworking%2Bauthor:zanasi%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Di3dtav08cne182nntdm6nodt1ciiguu713%25404ax.com%26rnum%3D1
or do an advanced search with "Ethics of selling Searz routers?" as the subject.
Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" twice in reply address for real email address
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The real shame is that there was a time when Craftsman tools were of excellent quality.
I have a Craftsman router that I bought in 1964. I've replaced bearings and brushes but it keeps on working well. Many times I still reach for it over my DeWalt, Bosch and Makita routers.
Phil
Tim Simmons wrote:

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to another human being?
My first router in the 1960's was a Sears. It was poorly designed and cumbersome, but it worked okay -- just a pain-in-the-ass to use. Over time I got several other routers with 1/2" collets, and started using 1/2" shank bit whenever possible. I gave my unused Sears router and a handful of 1/4" HSS bits to a guy who didn't have a router.
A few days later he came to my house -- and gave me an old, pristine Stanley 5C. I told him I wasn't expecting anything in return for the router, but I sure as Hell wasn't going to turn down the plane.
The plane is a gem, and I used it just last week on twelve seats for Windsor chairs.
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collet
I
Tim S.:
Yeah, I want one now w/a 1/2" collet.
Joel:

Stanley
Windsor
Tim S.:
Maybe I'll give mine away if I can't get a refund (prob can't even tho it just isn't working out).
Tim
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I had one for almost a year before I realized that I had the same problem (because of this newsgroup, BTW). I took it back and they exchanged it and some cash for a more expensive model. I found that none of the Sears router accessories would work with that particular unit, so they gave me a refund. I went elsewhere and bought the PC combo and have been very happy with it.
Tim Simmons wrote:

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Tim,
Yer preachin' to the choir on this one.
I've done the same as JOAT - put the POS in a router table and leave it. Seems that turning it upside-down defeats the ARHA feature.
-Chris
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Be sure you don't have the collet in Upside-Down, and also the tool bit has to pass all the way through the collet or it won't close parallel across its length/. In that case, the cuts in the collet touch together at one end and squeeze the end of the bit at the other. Collet assumes a tapered shape, thus not holding the bit tightly.
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I think Tom may actually have one of those Craftsman routers that has a tapered collet nut that squeezes the split hollow armature shaft. In that case, there is no real collet so to speak to get backwards.

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a
Sorry TOM,,, not Tim
Obviousely a Manufacture defect.
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IT HAS BEEN A LONG DAY...
May I say again that I am sorry with my confusion of your name....
TIM not Tom... I think.. :~)
wrote in message

it
squeezed
hard.
but
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Do not EVER clamp a collet down without a proper sized tool shank in it. Also, the shank has to be fully engaged in the collet, or else it wll become distorted in a conical fashion, and will not hold tools properly.
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(But I'm Not) The collet has been abused, either by not inserting the tool completely, or pitch has accumulated in the nut and taper surfaces, or the collet has been inserted and tightened Upside-Down, aganst the wrong taper surface (There are 2: one on each end, and they are different).
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Tim S.:
Well, I inserted the bit into the collet until it touched the bottom and then raised it (the bit) by maybe 1/8" and then tightened the collet nut til it was firm. I used the router maybe 15 min total cutting time.
So, I disagree with your analysis. But maybe it's still me?
Tim
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No, you are responding to a troll.

til
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I am the troll? What are your credentials? See my post of 15 min. ago. Man, for so many people who don't like my attitude, I really have to wonder why they keep reading me. I sincerely think you girls tune in just to see what the pirate is saying. And it would never hurt you, either. Some day, if you are very lucky, you may, just might, see where the BS quits. Enjoy.
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Clueless again, I see.

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Sears now carries Porter Cable....do the right thing.
Tim Simmons wrote:

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Avoid PC also...?...!!!!!
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