I got the Router stuff down the next is table saws.....
I've been making Mission style furniture for a while and have advanced to making cabinetry, and noticed the more apparent failures of using lower cost equipment or less persise equipment... So going through a garage tool upgrade.
For lack of knowledge I turn to the Ol' Sears catalog... But recently this doesn't seem to be Ol' reliable as it used to be.
Craftsman 10 in. Table Saw Sears item #00922104000 Mfr. model #OR35506
Grizzly G0575 10" Table Saw 1-1/2 HP Single-Phase 110V Left-Tilt
Delta or Jet Models under $600... I would even consider a reconditioned higher grade saw. I just have no experience with these to brands!
I would put a gun to my head if I ever bought another Crapsman tool again. No support, poor service, and the parts seem to be getting rare for even new machines. Do me this much, go to Sears and ask the clerk at the tool counter (the teenager with the hat on sideways, and about 20 piercing), if they have an arbor nut. Than call Grizzly and ask them the same.
If I had the choice I would go with the Grizzly. Good phone support and parts availability (as limited experience I have with them). There is no valid reason to buy a Sears, unless you want the "advertised" 10hp maximum developed. Look underneath that saw and try to find the rating on the motor plate. Problem is they take the motor plates off the motor on the floor models. Playing you for a fool.
Once that saw leaves the store, you are on your own, no local support from that store. You call for service just you would from Grizzly. I have heard, unconfirmed, that the first question that they ask if you call Sears service for tools is "Are you using the tool professionally". If you answer yes, than they promptly tell you that the warranty is void.
End my gripping about Sears. Than again I have a few thousand worth of handtools from them that I am worried that I made a mistake buying them. Not sure how long they will be around. Than again the tool section is so small in the nearest Sears from me that I can hardly use the lifetime guarantee. I am told they cannot order tools for guarantees. One of my broken tools is a 1/4 universal joint. I have been three times in the past
If you're serious about the reconditioned saw, shop around for an old Unisaw (Delta) vintage late 40's early 50's. You almost can't kill these saws, and the old addage "they don't build them like that anymore" is so true. Check Craigslist, eBay, or other woodworking machinery exchanges. You should be able to find a very useable old unisaw for around $500. Spend a week taking it apart, cleaning/painting it, put it back together and you'll be running a legend. This is the cabinet saw every other one is modeled after, and restoration is relatively simple. Add a modern fence and you'd have the equivilent of a $2000.00 new saw.
And many parts and accessories from the Older Unisaws fit newer ones too.
As you point out as bad as it is, I still can go to Sears and touchy feely the stuff. With the exception of a place called the "toolbox" there is no place HD, Lowes etc where I can ask ANY question, most places helpful but certainly not knowledgeable. Today's Sears is not my Daddy's Sears that's for sure.
I found out about Grizzly from the NG here and they have repeatedly got my money and will continue to do so, but only after I determine they can provide me with the best for the buck! I'm a selective educated consumer. I do understand that why buy a $600 dollar saw when a $300 one will do just as well..
Joe, You are correct on the touchy feely part. That is about the only advantage that Sears has. Mind you though, my local Sears a total of two table saws. You might be lucky and have a better one,. Normally when I go there I am either alone in the entire tool section, or there might be one other.
Than again, I drive by this Sears on frequent trips to HD. It is sad it almost looks like a ghost town, while at HD I can barely find a parking space.
Just do not let the touchy felly get to you and buy what is the best value.
For that matter, have you looked at a Sears catalog lately? A good amount of the tools are "catalog exclusive".
If you have the budget and room for it, that is a good suggestion; if you are lucky enough to find one.
I have a great craftsman saw I bought used. It was $250, but had enough upgrades to have a retail of maybe $900. Since I didn't know anything about saws I was lucky that it had been well maintained and in perfect alignment. Still, I recommend the used route if you are trying to economize. (wasn't your last post about cheap routers?)
We have about 5 Sears within 15 miles, some have better tool departments then others. Sears does favor hiring old salts over the kids, some know shit and some don't. Lowes and Home Depots to me are more product marketers then they are a Hardware, Lumber or Tool shop and Honestly do a poor job in those
3 areas. I can walk into my Ace and say I want this regardless of how odd, he has it and better, knows where it is and even gets it.
If we get to the point where stores like Sears vanish we will be screwed. I will not put it as my top 5 choices on anything, but I can go there and see that yes I like the way it does this, but this looks like shit etc etc. It does give me ideas and opinions I can't get elsewhere. There is a place in Union NJ on Route 22 that used to be and still is a machine shop that now sels tools, and appears to have a wide selection in stock to check out, just a pain in the ass to get there.
My last inquiry concerned router tables ($400) range, I did reply about starting out with a cheap router and still somewhat stand by that. I did Tool & Die as a kid, and for what ever reason I was very skilled and accurate to .00001 of an inch with metals. In the late 70's I tried my hand with wood.... it lasted about a week. I tried again in the 90's lasted maybe
24 hours longer. No matter what I made in wood it looked like some not very talented 8 year olds bird house. Even the mahogany speaker cabinets looked like a bird house.
My heart was broken, I was a wood working failure. I accepted that as a fact until 9/11 destroyed my office and I had a few months to kill until we relocated midtown. I got a bug up my ass because I saw this Mission style table with an Asian influence that went for 5K I liked the table and said I can do that... I did all by hand Ahhh I worked great with HAND WOOD TOOLS.... but apply power and it all turned to shit. So if I paid 50 bucks for a power tool I knew in my heart it was money being thrown away.
After almost 3 years my confidence built on solid experience, I re-ventured into the world of power tools, I bought a dirt cheap router and table.... the simple work looked good! So now I'm a mid range type guy experience wise. I buy the best tools not always the most expensive and I base my purchases on usage. Something I will use every day and need great accuracy.... I'll buy the best for the job, but shit work and shit jobs, I don't throw much money in......
Good grief. Go to a Harbor Freight store and buy a set when on sale (1/2" 3/8" and 1/4") The gas you spent going to Sears would have paid for it (assuming you round trips were about 10 miles).
George, Trust me I am cheaper than cheap. It is actually about 18 miles to Sears, one way. All my trips to the "big city" are well-coordinated. Problem is that I think I have the luck of having one of the worst Sears stores possible, thus my skew. I actually have a drawer on my tool chest that I keep the broken Sears tools, awaiting the trip. Actually it might be an advantage to me having such a sub-par Sears near me. I was in one of the larger / better ones near my father a while back. I was like a kid in the candy store. Wallet took a big hit too. Of course when I was there I did not have my collection of tools awaiting return.
When the time comes to go to the big city Sears is on my stop. This is if I am in a good mood as most of the time my experience there is less than positive.
I will let you know that I am starting to give up on them. I had been looking for a couple of months for a Allen / hex head, socket set. For two months they have been out of stock. Enco got my order.
Worth mentioning, Enco got my order for a 115 piece drill bit set as it was on sale for $79, made in the USA. I do believe it is the exact set that Sears sells for $279. Than again there is no advantage of buying drill bits at Sears.
Unfortunately Enco had a 3/4 ratchet set on sale for $41. Wow!!!!!!! Made me think hard as to why I paid close to $250 for the Craftsman one a couple of years ago. As much as I use it, the $41 should of been fine.
For me, Sears hardware, is the closest hardware/tool/paint/lawn&garden/elec/plumbing store.
When I need to pick up something quick I begrudgingly go there. I only buy things there like romex connectors, electrical boxes and other non-craftsman branded commodities. I will NEVER buy another craftsman tool.
I lent out my stud finder to someone, never got it back. Went to Sears. Bought this fancy one with digital readout, AC detection, etc. The thing didn't work for crap. Returned it. Went to lowes, bought a name brand, worked like a champ and was 1/3 the price.
Needed a jigsaw - Want a bosch. Was doing a job that did not require precision and Sears had one on sale. This thing has soo much blade deflection, the base will not stay square to the blade, the base slides forward and back, the saw doesn't really fit into its case. Waste of $$$.
Bought a 3/8 and 1/2" drive socket set with one fitted case included. Each socket has its designated space in the case. I figured, sears hand tool, how could I go wrong? I unpacked everything, put each socket in its proper place and closed/latched the case. I then went to carry the set to my garage. Almost every one of the sockets under about 5/8" drooped to the bottom of the case, out of their proper space! There was nothing defective with the case. It was just a bad design. A piece of foam 'fixed' the problem. I have lost soo many sockets because of this crappy design.
Router table - I needed an inexpensive tabletop router table. Bought a crapsman, told the slacker working there I had a PC 690. Bought the table and found out that the hole placement was only for the crapsman routers and I needed an adapter. 'nuther $5 and I had a jury rigged router table. The thing would blow away in the wind if I wasn't careful. I was able to use the switch from it when I built my own table. Sold the table at a garage sale for a couple of bucks.
And way back - They had a brand called husky. Were talking about clothes for fat kids. My mom made me where that stuff, I was ridiculed in school.
Anyway - I have made a commitment to myself that I will never buy another craftsman branded ANYTHING. I may still go there for the occasional nut or screw but that's it. I have been burned by craftsman too many times.
Joe: I would stay away from Craftsman. That is said by a guy who got by with one of the famous 70's vintage Craftsman table saws for more than 25 years. I am not specifically familiar with the Grizzly saw you mentioned but between my son-in-law and myself we have had great luck with Grizzly.
If you can raise your budgetary number a bit you can probably buy a saw that won't have you upgrading in a few years. The Grizzly 1023s or "sl" - (left tilt) are good cabinet saws that offer the best tool value available. If you search down on this group you will find a lot of comments about the 1023 series of saws. I have had mine for four years and love it.
On a "bang for the buck" basis -- It is *really* hard to beat the Ryobi BT3100. It is not a 'heavy duty' saw, but it _is_ a good (and _surprisingly_precise_) hobbiest tool, priced at about $300, new. Often available used for 1/3-1/2 less.
The Grizz contractor is good,
The _new_ Craftsman Contractor is reputed to be a pretty good weapon. Don't know if that one is the SKU/model-number you cited above or not. (other Craftsman power tools of anything approaching recent vintage are really cheap sh*t; the newly-introduced table saws are a _very_ different -- read as 'better' -- class of tool)
A used Delta contractor (34-4xx series) is in the price-range you're looking at -- new, circa $900.
Also look at "General", out of Canada -- not to be confused with their "General International" line, which are Far East imports.
Lastly, you might want to look at the 'Saw Stop' brand. available only directly from the manufacturer. It is hefty construction, and one of the models (don't remember if it is the cabinet, or the contractor) is priced quite competitively.
Someone was telling me about how they lived near the Grizzly showroom. If you're lucky enough to be able to drive over there, it's quite an experience.
And as it's been said many times, Grizzly has great customer service!
My Sears is only 4 miles away and it is pretty good. The HF is only 3 miles away. I see a lot of stuff at Sears and other Stores that is identical to what HF sells. Of course they also have stuff that is different, sometimes only a little different. $19 router bit set at HF is sold by Sears for $30. And a 3' 12 gage electric cord with 3 outlets costs $3 buck on sale at HF, at Sears it is $7 and at Lowes and Home Depot is sells for $11. We ARE talking about identical items.
I have a set of deep impact sockets from HF for $20. Would have cost a fortune elsewhere and I wanted just one to use with a torque wrench for trailer wheels, but could use the others on occasion. Figured there was no way I could break an impact socket, and I haven't.
Obviously you don't have an HF nearby. That set of universal joints I mentioned costs about $2.98. I bought a set of 5 gas line disconnectors (essentially plastic washer like gizmos)for $11 at a local auto place so I could change the gas filter on my truck. The next day I bought a set of stubby ratchets (1/4", 3/8", and 1/2") for $6.00 at HF. Sure the design is a bit bulky, but they work. Too bad HF doesn't have the gas line disconnectors as they would probably sell them for $3.00 and still make a heck of a profit. I mean , how much could it cost to manufacture the set of 5 plastic gizmos? 50 cents?
Wish I had an HF that close. Sounds like all good buys for a homeowner, so why not. I just recently purchased a 115piece drill bit set. HSS at Enco on sale for $79. I swear it is the exact same set that Sears sells for $279. Both made in the US. This to me is the final straw with Sears.
With the influx of cheap import tools, I think buying cheap and replacing it with something better when it breaks, or you find you are using a sub-par tool, is the way to go. I am only referring to hand tools. I am done investing in Craftsman tools. One price, two support, and most importantly, I think Sears' days are numbered.
When I bought (for instance) my bandsaw, I didn't have a clue what a bandsaw was. I could have felt it up all I'd wanted to and I'd still have been none the wiser. You can spot junk this way, but you aren't going to know the difference for a _good_ one without knowing what that type of tool is about, and also having used that model for a while.
My saw is 40 year old cast iron, and a damn good purchase. Not the best deal I could have had, but the principle was certainly right. A £2k new saw for £500 with a few decades age on it still beats a new £500 saw.
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