Oil/Beeswax Gel finish

Any who want to stray away from miniwax type finishes a little, or just generally like to stay away from toxic preparations as much as possible, there's a great non-toxic oil finish with the added protection of beeswax that we've used on our products for several years now. It has non-toxic carriers for penetrating wood . Feels and looks great. If you're interested in trying some email me, I can get you a discount.
Mark Shafer
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Mark Shafer states:

Added protection of beeswax?
I don't think so.
Charlie Self "Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:16:27 -0600, "Mark Shafer"

As a person who's read Bob Flexner's Finishing Book, I'm skeptical.
Could you elaborate on the merits of your product?
Thank you, Barry
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Sure -- go to www.pastimes.cc/finishes.htm for more of the scoop. Linseed oil enhances the natural characteristics of wood. Since this is raw linseed oil, it has no hardening effect. But the beeswax provides a certain amount of natural protection because of its repelling and sealing nature. The other oils help provide the soft consistency of the raw finish making application easier, and work as a penetrant to carry the beeswax and linseed oil into the wood before evaporating and leaving the linseed oil for richness and the beeswax to seal. However, this is a not a hard shell finish and is not recommended for exterior use or where sustained contact with moisture is expected. Over time all finishes oxidize, and this is no exception. But it is easy to apply and renew when necessary down the road -- and enjoyable to use.
I am an experienced professional furniture builder and instrument maker, finisher and restorer, and have worked with nitrocelulose lacquer, sprayable polyester resin and many other finishes extensively. Few know what polyester-resin is, but if you're looking for something durable, head there. Unfortunately, even with a supplied-air respirator and other protection, over the years I have had extended exposure to the toxins of these finishes and felt their effects. I use alternatives every chance I have. If you're interested in something rich and natural looking, try the oil/beeswax gel. We do not claim this finish is for all types of projects. If you have questions regarding the suitability of this product for a project you have in mind contact us. We won't try to sell you on something that won't work.
Mark Shafer

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Mark Shafer responds:

It is in essence a wax, not a finish. This might be useful on things not handled often, but it is not a true finish with any protective value. For instance, it would be worthless on table tops, floors, any heavily used furniture or other item.

end-all. Now you say it isn't. You're right the second time. Might be a pretty good heavy wax finish, but I don't see much value here or anything someone couldn't whip up in a shop in a few minutes, assuming they had some citrus oils on hand. Most of us have linseed oil, beeswax and often other waxes. The gel bit is nothing but a consistency level.
$7.95 for a half pint is a bit rough. I left then and didn't check the shipping costs.
Charlie Self "Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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It may not be the kind of finish you like -- that's fine. However, there are several oil finishes available on the market. This is definitely an oil type, has the same effect on wood as oil, but it also has a natural sealer. Wax alone will not bring out the beautiful colors in wood, even if it is melted in, such as happens when applied to a turning on a lathe. It takes oil to do that. We have used this finish in our toy production for a number of years now. We wholesale our toys to a national toy company and have been among their best selling items for several years running. You'd be surprised how well it does last even with regular handling, and again, it is easy to renew. I realize we cannot sell this to everybody, for all purposes. I appreciate that point Charlie, but you may even have some projects it would work well on if you tried it.

The value is in the quality of ingredients, and having a ready to use product that is easy to apply. Our price is way lower than some competitive products -- try "Claphams - perfect for cutting boards, cheese boards, fruit or salad bowls, toys, utensils and more," $15.99 for less than 8 oz. Or "Preserve - forms a more durable finish than oils alone, buffs to a water repellent luster," $12.99 for 8 oz. You can whip up a lot of things in a shop, and experimentation is what it's all about. But it would be nearly impossible to procure the ingredients for a small batch of this without spending more money than you would for several cans, to say nothing of time involved. The ingredients in this finish are not off-the-shelf hardware store items. We can save you all that trouble, and some money too.
It's true "gel" is nothing but consistency level with any finish. In the polyurethanes it is accomplished with a heat process, since it is not practical to adjust consistency to that level any other way. This is a very desirable level of consistency for certain applications.
Again, come give us a try!
Mark Shafer
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:28:20 -0600, "Mark Shafer"

a few years back there was a spam like this involving a lubrication product- slipit. the vendor offered up samples to the group, sent said samples and got some good feedback for it. it seemed to me like a good approach.....
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I'm curious as to what advantage you feel this offers over the Tried & True oil/wax finish that's already on the market? They state that their linseed oil is naturally polymerized, with no heavy metal driers or petroleum distillates added. They also use beeswax.
So why would I want to stop using their finish and buy your product instead?
Chuck Vance
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Three things: 1, We went one step further, and our oils are food grade. Not only do you not have to worry about absorbtion through the largest organ in your body - skin, but your youngster can help you apply it. Though not recommended for internal use, a lick won't hurt you. 2, Our linseed oil is not pre-polymerized, so it will penetrate deeper (carrying the wax in with it) and then cure. Polymerized linseed oil (a process of heating to a high temperature) stays more on the surface. With our product, what one could call post-polymerization (caused by heat, light or oxygen), though slower, naturally occurs after application and goes deeper. 3, We are a dollar less per pint.
Mark Shafer

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IIRC, T&T is "food-safe". I don't know if that's the same or not in practice.

I wonder if that's why T&T's finishing schedule calls for applying, letting it sit for an hour and then buffing/rubbing? I'm also guessing that is why you can use so little of their finish at a time and get good results.

If your product looks as good, goes on as nicely, and stretches as far as T&T, that actually will be meaningful. Otherwise, I'll just stick to what I know works.
BTW, I am always curious about the various "citrus oils". What exactly do they accomplish besides making things smell nice?
Anyhow, thanks for the answers to my questions. I was skeptical partially because your original post seemed awfully close to spam.
Chuck Vance
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The function of citrus oils in our product is basically to act as a carrier and then evaporate, allowing greater initial penetration of the residual ingredients.
Food safe is great. I won't put some of the other products down on that claim. There are different grades of linseed oil. Polymerized linseed oil is not a food grade, though it may be food safe on a surface. The same goes with citrus oils, there are different grades. Then, there is also food safe grease for lubricating restaurant equipment, but it's nothing you would really want in your food in more than trace amounts, if at all. But the safeness of a finish goes way beyond it's final state. Take polyester resin as an extreme example; highly toxic in the raw, but in it's cured state it is inert even if ingested. This is why Corian is such a great countertop -- it is polyester resin with pigments.. From my experience as a finisher I understand the safety precautions necessary for handling many common finishes. Here, I'll divulge some of the story behind our finish for those who haven't visited our website.
In 1998 we began selling our toys to a premium toy catalog and online store. Among this market's strict requirements were safety, durability, smooth quality and (of course) a non-toxic finish. When I started using the family's help in the finishing department, we knew we didn't want exposure to the toxic nature of conventional finishes in the raw either. We wanted a product safe enough to apply without special protection and a non-toxic finish for the children who are the end users of toys. After trying a number of products, we felt we could make improvements. What we came up with after a significant amount of R & D made the task of production finishing and assembly immensly easier, and made a world of difference in the finishing room environment that affected our health in a positive way. This stuff is actually good for you.
Honestly, this conversation has been greatly beneficial to me and I thank all for their feedback. If our product needs improvement, changes and suggestions are absolutely welcome. Naturally, no one really knows without having some in their hands (on their hands). So, Charlie Self, BarryBurkeJr., and Conan the Librarian, if you'll send me your addresses I'll send you each a complimentary 1/2 pint. This offer is for you only, in appreciation your participation here. Thanks for your responses!
Mark Shafer

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OFFER GOOD THROUGH FEBRUARY 15, 2004.
Charlie Self, BarryBurkeJr., and Conan the Librarian, if you'll send me your addresses I'll send you each a complimentary 1/2 pint. This offer is for you only, in appreciation of your participation here. Thanks for your responses!
Mark Shafer
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:08:31 -0600, "Mark Shafer"

gee, mark, it'd prolly be a good idea to open it to the group or make the offer privately via email....
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wrote:

I agree. Instead of promoting the product, you just turned off everyone else here. Talk about dumb marketing. Ed
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Bridger wrote:

and maybe make the expiration date after the offer date;-) Joe
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On 17 Feb 2004 05:19:07 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@swt.edu (Conan the Librarian) wrote:

they make an effective if expensive replacement for solvents on the level of mineral spirits or turpentine.
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