O/T: What's Next?

Page 8 of 10  
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:20:39 -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

Perhaps my point of view has been influenced by my experiences. My best friend throughout grade school and high school came from a family of medical professionals. One brother was a doctor, one a vet, and his sister was a pharmacist. His father was the first licensed physician in the state.
All of them considered medicine a calling, not a business. The doctor brother came out of med school and went to work in Appalachia. He chuckled as he told stories of being paid in corn, chickens, and occasionally moonshine.
My doctor sometime later had given up a lucrative practice in Chicago and moved to a little town near the Wisconsin border because he couldn't stand the way he was starting to treat medicine as a business.
So I'll at least check out the doc in the Ford to see why he's driving it. He may be a drinker, a gambler, a loser in a malpractice suit, or he may just be my kind of doctor.
So while I know we'll never agree, I'll continue to believe that getting rich off the miseries of others is, if not downright immoral, certainly distasteful. When medicine became a "business" instead of a "calling" we all became poorer.
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Larry Blanchard wrote: <SNIP>

I heartily agree - that's why I could never be a liberal Democrat.
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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You're full of shit. Feeble try at a flip-flop.
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Upscale wrote:

Again, you've no idea about my personal behaviors in this regard. Theft is theft. I do not like the idea of profiting from the misery of other and have - even recently -refused to do so. But a poor man stealing from a rich man is just as dishonorable as the reverse situation. We are either people of principle or we can abandon all notion of civil behavior.
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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Again, it comes down to your logical inadequacies to understand. Health care professionals are paid and paid well, just not to the excessive standards you'd like to see. The problem is that you don't see the right to health and life as being intrinsically linked. You are not a person of principal, you're a person of greed, taking what you can get and screw everyone else. I don't have to know you personally to make that statement, anybody can see just by your words what kind of person you are.
Sure, you might have made the occasional contribution here and there, but you'd only have done it entirely for personal benefit thinking all along that it might get you something more tangible than just a good feeling.
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Upscale wrote:

According to you. However, you are not smart enough to know whether that is *enough*. Enough to cause more people to enter the field? pursue research? make major breakthroughs? You've written the number you've made up on an imaginary blackboard and said, "That is enough." Just who appointed you and your ilk to decide what the "enough" number is? Can I do the same for your profession? Say you're a home builder. Pretty much everyone needs shelter in some form. I say you're not allowed to make more than $5 CN / hour. Is that OK with you? Would it be OK with your if we all voted on it and agreed to that number. After all, shelter is "intrinsically linked to life" as you like to preach.

You do not have a "right" to steal. I do not steal and object to your doing so. That makes me principled.

You are very wrong. I am happy to help those in need. Just not with your gun to my head demanding the power over my wallet because you've anointed yourself as my better and appointed yourself the czar of what's good for everybody.

Sputtering ... another evidence of a failed argument.

I will not discuss my charitable actions because: a) It's none of your business and b) Talking about it takes all the fun out of doing such things anonymously.
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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drives a 12 year old 320i
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Or maybe he just doesn't care much about cars. The CEO of Word Perfect used to ride around in a clapped out 20 year old pickup truck until the marketing guys got it across to him that people seeing him in that though that the company was in trouble and he got some kind of shiny new econobox to go to work in.

Cost me a thousand bucks at the emergency room to get four stitches the other day. I don't think anybody was profiteering though--most of that was "emergency room charge", which I understand is a kind of tax (imposed by the hospital, not the government) on those who can pay to cover the costs for those who can't, since the ER is required by law to take all comers regardless of financial situation. The doctor's fee was something like a hundred bucks.
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Han wrote:

If by that you mean the future taxpayers that will have to pay increased income taxes to pay off the debt that the trust funds contain as a result of spending the excess FICA taxes today, you are correct - dual taxation.

That will result in running up debt at a faster rate as every excess SS dollar that goes into the "trust fund" is a dollar of debt with interest. When the funds need to redeem those debt bonds, future taxpayers will have to bail out the funds.

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from current taxes, if you really want to have a real retirement, it is up to you, through your union (puke), employer (double puke), 401K, IRA or what have you. SS is just a drop in the bucket, not really enough to live on.
As far as Medicare/Medicaid/health insurance is concerned, I believe that a certain fairly low level should be compulsory. Add-on insurance should be affordable, and available at different levels of benefits and premiums. It should also be underestood that smoking or other dangerous habits should carry a penalty.
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Han
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Han wrote:

If the excess contributions were invested in corporate stocks/bonds rather than government debt, future shortfalls would be covered by the profits of those corporations - such as Exxon-Mobil - rather than taxing future generations a second time for the same purpose.
if you really want to have a real retirement, it is

Agree. That is exactly what I am living on in retirement - the investments I made during my working career. And those investments are also paying my medical insurance premiums with no undue financial pain.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

Do you really want Congress owning (all) corporations?

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Wouldn't that be a 180 degree turn-around? Don't corporations own Congress now?
Dave [the Cynic] in Houston
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says...

So, you'd rather have the incompetent crooks in Washington owning all corporations? Perhaps you'd be happier in the FSU?
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krw wrote:

I'd rather have citizens owning corporations in privatized accounts. The current method of having government spend the money in retirement accounts and replacing it with government IOUs adds up to $4 trillion in debt with another $40 or so trillion to go. Our kids and grandkids are going to love being taxed a second time for the same thing we already paid taxes for.
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Han wrote:

And yet, a large number of retired people do just that.
Consider, if you would, the situation faced by the retired spouse or parent(s) of a cancer patient when all available resources had been spent on medical treatments.
Consider also what happens when pension fund (of whatever kind) is rendered valueless through no fault of the retiree.

Hmm. Have you ever tried making a list of "dangerous practices"? Off the top of my head...
Smoking Firefighting Motorcycling Holding a microwave transmitter against the side of your skull Entering a conflict zone Entering a disaster zone Teaching in an inner city school Being a student in an inner city school Working in law enforcement Residing in an [earthquake/tornado/flood/hurricane] zone Driving a motor vehicle Consuming alcohol
What is the nature of the penalty you would choose (fine/imprisonment/exile/death/other)?
I think I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you've thought things through quite far enough...
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It would put a real crimp in my lifestyle. I hope my other investments don't go the way of my Lehman stock. Not that I would choose single investments for something like my pension.

Note that I also said that affordable health insurance at a certain minimal level should be compulsory, and it should be possible to augment it to one's heart's content. I think that's were we get to the point were individual responsibility needs to take over. At what point is treatment only prolonging life, and who has to decide? Very difficult but necessary questions.

It is always the fault of the retiree (well, almost always). Pension funds should be very diversified. Just Enron stock is criminal - both for the employee and the employer.

Some answers ...

area. They are enjoying it tremendously, truely! And seeing disadvantaged kids "get it" is a real treat.

Sorry, increased insurance rates or reduced coverage or both, so among your choices, it would be death <grin>.

You know or should know that I was born in Holland many years ago, and came to the US in 1969, where I have been in HMOs ever since.
As far as thinking it through, I don't think you can ever think it through completely.
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Han
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Morris, in your list above, you missed one that hits all of us on this forum (except for a few trolls):
Use of power tools
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If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Eh? Power tools are safe - it's the operators who're dangerous!
(I almost wish I hadn't said that right out loud.)
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Morris Dovey wrote:

http://www.allmax.com/MILT /
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