O/T What are the real truths? What is happening right under our nose?

[Tom Bunetta]

Hi Guys and Gals, I have been made aware of some things suspected in the back of my mind. Check these out investigate and make your own decisions, Tom

[Swingman]

"Tom Bunetta" wrote

late.

Your freedom and sovereignty has been bartered to the highest global corporate bidder by your politicians. As of this week in NOLA, this country, once cherished and fought for, is history, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.

Besides, who gives a rat's ass as long as you can watch American Idol, right after the network evening news.

[Frank Boettcher]

News? I don't think I've seen actual news on television since the dawn of CNN.

I closed a plant in a small town, which is unfortunately bound to be "news". One of the most shocking things about this was observing the" news" articles that were written or broadcast about that event. Other than a couple of prepared press releases, I offered no interviews or additional information. Unbelievable what was "made up" to fit the agenda targeted opinion that was published or reported as "news".

You sir, are not smart enough to be given the facts and formulate your own opinion regarding same. But not to worry, someone will do it for you.

Frank

[Swingman]

Can you spell "facetious"?

(I know you can, but I'm not so sure about _many_ others)

[Leon]

"Swingman" wrote in message news:fqqdnWlUopCfuJLVnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]...

Take in mind also the further proof that politicians and big business are in bed together.

My son was looking at the Exxon annual report, public information, between

2003 and 2007 Exxon's sales have almost doubled. No doubt, the gasoline prices have almost doubled. The gross profit however has almost tippled. So when they say the prices of oil has gone up they also mean that their mark up on those prices have increased by an additional 50% over the last 4 years also. Congress investigates to appease the public and we hear nothing except that there was no law broken. What Congress does not tell us is really why the price of gasoline is going up. They don't want to look for a solution, like getting rid of the law that prohibits new refineries from being built. They don't want to show how the oil company mergers have wiped out half of their competition. Then take into consideration that the oil companies don't participate in price fixing. HA! For price fixing they would all have to get together to agree on a price. That would be illegal. Let the ignorant media do that dirty work for us. One of the oil companies will indicate to a reporter that oil prices have gone up and gasoline prices are going to go up in a few weeks. The reporter on national TV reports this information for all to see including all the other oil companies. The news report is the trigger for all the other oil companies to raise their prices and oddly all on the same day. Do you remember in the not so distant past when the news rarely mentioned anything about gasoline prices and those prices were more stable? I agree that the rising price of oil is part of the problem but the rising price of oil does not cause gross profits to increase an additional 50% in 4 years.

And then this morning there was the Expert from Consumer Reports indicating that is a waste of money to put premium fuel in a car that only requires regular fuel. That was true before there were computers, knock sensors and fuel injection in the modern car. I assure you my son and I both get about

10% better gas mileage by using premium fuel over regular. Simply put, higher octane fuels help to decrease the chance of engine knock. The computer can control engine knock/ping by listening through the engine knock sensor. If the computer hears a knock it retards the ignition timing electronically. Retarding the timing gets rid of the knock and decreases power and fuel economy. If the computer detects no knock it will advance the ignition timing until knocking is detected. Advancing ignition timing increases performance and in turn fuel economy. Remember, higher octane fuel is less likely to create engine knock than regular fuel. Premium fuel is a benefit if the mileage increase percentage is more than the price difference percentage. As fuel prices increase the percentage of price difference between premium and regular fuel tends to be less. Many years ago premium was commonly 50% more expensive than regular. Today it is about 8% more expensive.

Rant off. ;~)

[Frank Boettcher]

Not without a working spell checker I can't. Alas, the long term result of relying on same. Do know what it means though.

Probably should have added a grin to the last statement in my post, but experience tells me the regular posters and identified lurkers seem to have their wits about them.

Frank

[Fred the Red Shirt]

The price fixing is on the other end of the pipeline, and competitive pricing is further squelched by the throttling effect of limited refinery capacity. Excess capacity is excess overhead.

Suppose when the price of petroleum goes up one company decides to hold the line at it's stations and take the reduced margin. In a free market, consumers would be attracted by the lower prices and the company that held the line would increase its market share thus raising its net profit, albeit on a lower margin.

Problem is, that company cannot increase its supply to keep up with that increased demand. First of all, most companies are already operating their refineries at peak capacity. Also petroleum, like wood, is a natural product with considerable variation in its properties dependent on the source. If a refinery begins receiving feed from a different oil field it will have to retool to handle those differences.

Aside from those problems, petroleum is delivered on long-term contracts. Their suppliers, like everyone else's, are already pumping their quota and are not allowed to pump more. Other suppliers are already pumping their quota and under contract to deliver to other companies and so cannot (or will not) sell to the company with the lower prices.

So instead of capturing a larger market share, a company that undercuts it's competition would run short on product, soon losing at least as much market share as they initially gained.

Not all petroleum comes from OPEC nations, But enough does that they control the price on the world market.

[nailshooter41]

Well, I'll admit I have trouble with it. I though when you were talking about television news it was spelled "fictitious". No?

Robert

[LRod]

I don't know what "many years ago" is to you, but it takes me back to my yout of the '50s, when regular was commonly 22¢ a gallon or thereabouts. We were never premium users, so I can't say with certainty that it wasn't 11¢ higher but I'd be very surprised if it was. When I was doing my commuting during the '60s regular was still relatively low, ranging from 28¢ to 34¢, but I am fairly certain premium (or any gas) was not over 40¢ then.

I remember well the gas lines of the '70s and when the price started creeping toward $1, but premium was never $1.50 until much later. Even closer to now as we've gone past $1.50, $2.00, $2.50, and $3.00 I don't ever remember seeing premium at half again as much.

It would be my assessment that the 8% you quoted to 10 or even 15% is actually closer to the historical record. I can't imagine it was ever "commonly 50% more expensive." That doesn't jibe with my memory.

Of course even when Sunoco had pumps with about six or more selections of grade (remember 260?) I'll bet there wasn't as much as a 50% premium from lowest to highest grade.

[Robatoy]

Never happened. 5-10% max.

I remember Sunoco 280. It was about 20% higher than 'regular leaded.' I live in a Sunoco town. We have a refinery right here. It might be purely a 'mind' thing, but I feel like there's always a little more power after I get Sun Oil gasoline. Sunoco treats their employees a little better than the others.

r

[Dave in Houston]

Which means that our patriotic American Oil companies are selling us their domestically produced crude for the same price the Saudis are selling us theirs? Which, if true, I suppose is where Exxon-Mobil makes a good chunk of their $49 billion profit?

Whoever said there is no honor among thieves was right.

Dave in Houston

[Lew Hodgett]

Along about that time gas wars were common in Detroit.

Would hear stories about $0.16-$0.18 sometimers as low as $0.15/gal from people who had just been to Detroit.

Of course, to put things in perspective, minimum wage was $050/hr for part time help and had gotten all the way to $1.00/hr for a 40 hour week by thye time I graduated from hiogh school.

Still remember going to the Amoco station and filling up my motorcycle (less than 2 gal) with their super Hi-Test for $0.50 which lasted ALL week.

[Leon]

Some people believe that they have to charge world market prices.

[Leon]

When I was 19 and still living in Corpus Christi I vividly recall paying

19.9 for regular and premium was 29.9 at the local Shamrock station. I was able to enjoy that one time. Normmally the gas in the early 70's was 22-25 for reg and 32-35 for premium.

See above, I never could understand how some could afford to pay 35 cents for premium. Keep in mind that Corpus Christi had and has lots of refineries.

Sorry you can't temember but it was.... I was in the automotive business even then going to school and working part time, I kept a close eye on all those prices. Pennziol 30W was 32 cents per quart, Havoline was 28 cents per quart. Uniflow 10-40 was 34 cents.

[Leon]

I remember the gas wars also, those were good wars. The cheapest I ever paid was 19.9 and I was making minimum at 1.65 in 1972.

[Doug Winterburn]

Actually, $40 billion on $400 billion total revenue - or 10 cents on the dollar. The also paid $30 billion in income tax.

Check out MicroSoft. $51 billion total revenue with $14 billion profit

- or 27 cents on the dollar! They did pay $6 billion in income tax. With that big of margin, I wonder why they charge so much since they have over 90% of their market? Oh, that's right, they're in business to make money for their investors, which includes my IRA funds.

I'm happy I invested in Exxon-Mobil - took the sting out of the current market downturn.

[Tom Bunetta]

Swing, I guess that one slipped by me NOLA? A search gave mostly New Orleans hits. Fill me in (a guess: erasing borders with Mexico and Canada?) Tom

[Upscale]

Of course they do. If it's not stockholders demanding that world market prices be met, then some rich conglomerate would buy all the gas at the lower price and immediately bump it up to world market prices making an immediate, immense profit.

[duckecho]

Bingo. Swingman's a coon ass of the first order.

[Hank]

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:tSPPj.3485$nb4.892 @trnddc08:

The least I ever paid for gas in the USA was $.119. This was in 1957 at many stations along 'gasoline alley (Columbus Ave.)' in Springfield Mass. during the gas wars. Had a '41 Ford coupe with a '48 Merc 59AB block. Triple Fenton manifold mounting Stromberg 98s (or was it 97s?). Had a three quarter cam and Edelbrock 10:1 heads. Headers and the loudest glass packs in the state. I could beat most showroom Chevy's, but vettes were a problem. I loved the flatheads, but I knew the era was over.