O/T: Welcome to $4/gal gasoline

[DGDevin]

Of course, that was my point, that sooner or later, one way or another, you pay for it.

[Dave In Texas]

I have no doubt that the petroleum market is one of the [if not THE] most manipulated commodities on the planet - think Enron. You have to wonder if a lot of the volume isn't being traded back and forth between brokers just to artificially inflate the price. And, you have to wonder that if it costs less to produce a domestic barrel (shouldn't it?) why producers still get the global price for a home grown barrel. Well, I guess anybody can guess that. As for refineries, the majors have been wailing for years about the government regulations and red tape, not to mention the cost, of building any new facilities. They also like to cite how the public is 'NIMBY.' And I think that's BS. "Squeezing" the supply line helps to keep the price of their inventory inflated. Then again, if BP wanted to build within 10 miles of my home I'd cry NIMBY, as loud as the next guy.

Dave in Houston

[Lew Hodgett]

-------------------------------- As Pogo once said, "We have met the enemy and he is us".

Major part of the problem is the size and patch work list of gasoline blends legislated across the country, often changing as a function of time of year.

A refinery does a "turn around" to set up the refinery to produce a list of products and do maintenance.

This can happen several times a year.

Problem is, the market has become so segmented that it is not profitable or even possible for more than one or two refineries to produce the same products at the same time.

The result is an unexpected interruption of production can't be covered by another refinery.

There simply is no real off line spare capacity.

There will never again, or should there be IMHO, another "grass roots" refinery built in this country.

Economics have made sure of the above, which is all the more reason to pursue development of alternate energy sources.

Lew

[Markem]

Of course the Chicago Board of Trade people love it.

Mark

[EXT]

Right, but so many US residents (particularly far right Republicans) seem to be convinced that Healthcare is provided free to everyone. Yes, children and those who cannot work are covered at no cost to themselves, just the same as police protection, fire fighters and other services that are paid out of tax revenues. Not everything is covered, there are still many procedures, services or treatments that must be paid for by those requesting them.

[HeyBub]

It DOES make a difference. Virtually all U.S. refineries are operating at

100% capacity. When one goes offline, the effects are almost always felt.

[Robatoy]

You have been trolled. The discussion was about gas prices and Devvy decided to toss in health care.

[Robatoy]

And what does that troll have to do with the price of gas?

[Leon]

But the falicy with that popular explanation is that there is no supply shortage because of that interruption. I have not seen a gas line since the early 80's. I'm still not drinking the KoolAid.

The only valid reason to find alternative energy sources is to increase the competition. Remember about 10 years ago when all the oil companies began to merge? They were essentially eliminating 1/2 the competition and through loop holes and alternative means came up with a creative way to price fix.

[Leon]

In the last 30 years I have not once felt the effect of a gasoline shortage. I have not seen a gas line except when hurricane Rita threatened Houston a 6 years ago. If there were truely shortates we would see lines at the pump, basically we would actually see shortages. The media is what sets every thing up for the refineries to raise prices.

[woodstuff]

You think like Obama, with the same flaw. Alternate energy is fine, but we need oil now to function. Drilling bans and sluggish permitting plus EPA regs and crap like that has made us to be more dependent on foreign oil. So do renewable work, but don't kill us until then!

Please send some of your own money from your own bank account to Washington D.C. And also donate to programs to teach street people to install Chinese-made solar panels to give a great boost to our economy.

Damn right!

have a nice day, woodstuff

[Upscale]

It doesn't. He just had to inject his last word comment and that was all that came to mind.

[HeyBub]

You must have been asleep during the Carter years (was that thirty years ago?).

But you're right. There is no shortage of gasoline, only a shortage of CHEAP gasoline.

As demand goes down, supply increases and prices drop. When prices rise, demand falls off.

A city government can cut its gasoline supply by a significant amount by simply parking its police cars instead of them patrolling around. They answer calls, of course, but no more cruising.

When I was a cop, we put between 200 and 300 miles on the car in an 8-hour shift. During the Carter oil fiasco, we parked and put maybe 50 miles on the patrol car each night. Ate a lot of donuts...

Individual citizens make the same trade-offs.

[Lobby Dosser]

The difference is, of course, TAXES. You guys have to pay for Nanny somehow.

[Lobby Dosser]

You have been trolled. The discussion was about gas prices and Devvy decided to toss in health care.

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The primary difference among prices for gasoline is taxes.

[Lobby Dosser]

When people are subsides to Not produce, yes.

[Lobby Dosser]

Moon Over Mobil

[Dave In Texas]

The media ? Huh? I'll have some of whatever it is that Leon's been smoking.

The media ?

Dave in Houston

[DGDevin]

Yes, Americans have weird views of Canadian health care. Few of them actually know how it works, yet half of them think it's a "free" health care paradise, and the other half think it's flaming socialism with year-long waits to get a bandaid.

[Upscale]

For once, I agree with you 100%.