O/T: Up Yours

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wrote:

How much of a market is there for powdered laundry detergent? Na2CO3 is better known as "washing soda".
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J. Clarke wrote:

Why not?......Is the capture and storage cost prohibitive?......Are not rising levels of CO2 simply the release of naturally stored CO2?

I'd agree with current technologies and costs nuclear is the only or the largest viable energy crisis alternative.......Renewables are simply stop gaps and niche products and often expensive....Conservation makes a good sound bite but no one ever rationed themselves to prosperity. Possibly worthwhile for getting through hard times but never for solving hard times. Rod
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"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote:

Jeff Immelt, CEO, General Electric, obviously doesn't share your point of view.
Seems he has made the decision to invest significant GE resources in the renewable energy business.
Wonder where the assets from the sale of the GE major appliance business will be invested?
Wind turbine anyone?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

The fact that GE thinks they can make money selling the things doesn't make them any less a stopgap.
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

Do you have any idea how ridiculous the above sounds?
GE doesn't "think", they "know" there is money to be made long term, in the renewable energy business, which is why the major capitol investment is being made to develop products for it.
Renewable energy products have an international market while major appliances (ovens, stoves, refrigerators, etc) are limited to the domestic market.
Maybe that is why major appliances are for sale.
Maybe they need the $'s to build more and bigger wind turbines.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Your quibbling over "think" vs "know" instead of addressing the point being made tells me that you don't really have a viable counterargument.
As for ovens, stoves, refrigerators, etc being limited to the domestic market, are you saying that Americans are the only people who cook food and store it in refrigerators? If so, you really need to talk to your doctor about your medication.
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

"Quibbling", interesting choice of words.
There is no "arguement", simply a statement of facts.

It's very difficult to be competitive shipping major appliances across oceans.
Ever wonder why the Chinese tried to buy a US appliance manufacturer rather than serve the US market from China?
Seems the logic evades you.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Still no counterargument, just an assertion that you have stated "facts".

And yet somehow the Germans and the Koreans manage it. More of your "facts"?

To get a brand name?

Seems that you don't get out much.
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

When you have the facts, use them.
When you don't, throw crap at the wall and hope something sticks.
Wasted enough time and effort.
Another kill file contribution.
Lew
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Check out sand cast iron barbell weights at a sporting goods store sometime. The last ones I saw here in Maryland were imported from the PRC. Somehow they manage to be competitive shipping (literally) dead weight halfway around the worlds.
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FF


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"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote:

Different ball game.
When you ship a major appliance, it includes a lot of sailboat fuel which makes it very tough to get any shipping density on a container ship.
Freight charges end up being based on occupied volume, not weight.
Lew
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That makes a lot of sense. Now I won; tbe surprised if they start making square barbell weights.
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wrote:

Up to a total container weight not exceeding 67,000 pounds.
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Robatoy wrote:

I wonder if this might not be for the GVW limit on trucks - 80,000 pounds in the US?
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Robatoy wrote:

"Doug Winterburn" wrote:

Makes sense; however, consider the folowing:
300 lbs/reefer.
67,000/300 = 223 reefers.
Assume a 53 ft trailer, the largest used.
No way to you get 223 reefers in a 53 ft trailer.
Lew
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If it were not for the problems of waste control and control of plutonium (apart from cheap nuclear weapon material, it is also very, very toxic), nuclear would be ideal. Hence the '60's ideas of fusion energy, still a great potential source.

Not so. I signed up for electricity delivery from renewable sources, and I hope I am not hoodwinked. The info and bills say I am getting 100% of my electricity from wind and water, all for ~$4/month more. OK, on a $50/month electric bill it is by percentage a lot, perhaps, but not much in impact on my pocketbook.

Conservation can be as easy as walking to the post office 200 yards away, instead of starting up the car from cold, just for getting a few stamps. Or turning off the lights when not needed. Conservation need not be a measure of last resort, but is just a showing of respect for natural resources.
All in my opinion, of course! And I do leave my computers on too much <grin>.
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Han wrote:
... snip

But are you really paying 100% of the cost of the difference for those renewables, or it this where you are paying for one of those "green watts" programs where you donate a certain amount per month for so development of so many kilowatt hours of wind or solar?

Not sure that many people would actually drive that short a distance and even those who do are using miniscule amounts of energy in so doing

If you are doing it to save money, that's one thing. If you think you are saving the planet, you've been hoodwinked.

One of the biggest wasters of resources is the idiotic "sleep mode" on copiers and printers at places of business. It takes on the order of minutes for those things to wake up while the person using them has to wait. When you compute the cost of the person's time vs. the electricity savings, the electricity savings pale in comparison. That's a real drag on productivity and output
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I am surcharged to pay for the difference in cost (or subsidy - what's the difference?) between ordinary electricity and high-faluting electricity. Thereby I believe I am doing something good, and I am happy that I can afford it.

I was making a point, and using close to an actual distance between my home and the USPS office in 07410. At night, when getting a prescription in the rain from the CVS 100 yards further, I have chosen to use the car.

One does not exclde the other. Do not demean the "rush" of realizing you're doing something "good" <grin>.

That's true for a gadget that is used every few minutes, or at least every half hour on a 24/7 basis. I was more thinking of the TV being really on while everyone is asleep or at work. Or the copier is on during the long weekend. (Our copier at work goes into deep sleep when not used in an hour or so, so then it is less of a factor).
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Han wrote:

... snip

Ahh, the Church of Global warming. Repentance, penance, and absolution (carbon credits). I get it

Over weekends and at night I'll buy.

... and that's where the problem lies. One hour, two hours, during the business day -- that is what is really expensive. Even if the copier takes 1 kW (not true, but I don't have the numbers to hand) in idle mode -- that is at most 20 cents worth of electricity (50 cents in California probably). OTOH, the employee waiting for that copier to wake up from deep sleep -- typically 3 to 5 minutes can easily cost on the order of $3 to $5 worth of time once you figure labor and overhead into the time accounting for that person. It becomes even more expensive when the copies are critical for some last-minute deadline and one has to wait for the copier to "wake up" because it was idle for more than an hour.
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We can go back and forth about this, but the fact remains that power on means power consumed. How to limit that, and how to make "instant on" indeed instant on from power off or practically off, that's what should be figured out.
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Han
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