O/T: The Bail Out

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NuWave Dave wrote:

Stick around and watch. If Comrade Obama (PBUH) is elected, you're going to be begging for W to come back...
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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I imagine a similar sentiment being uttered about this time in 1976. Just wait. It can always be worse. But I can already hear it. Anything good that happens will be because of Obama, and anything bad will have been Bush's fault.
todd
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'S funny. For 7-1/2 years, the neocons have been blaming it all on Clinton.
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Comparing Obama to Carter doesn't really make a lot sense to me. Maybe its an age thing :)
Anyway, you're comparing apples and oranges: Obama will be a beacon for democracy (small d - not the party) in the US and the world. His acceptance will be widespread and will include the disenfranchised. He will try to lower the ocean level by joining with the rest of the developed world and trying to do something positive about climate change. This should actually bring the US to a leadership position in R&D, manufacture and use of alternative energy sources. He will heal the sick by improving medicare. You have so much to look forward to over the next eight years. It's going to be great.
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Jimbo wrote: <SNIP>

One is a Southern communist, the other one is an urban communist.

You mean by meeting with Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Castro, Hezbolla, and Hamas?

Where "disenfranchised" = "everyone who wants something that does not legitimately belong to them".

I hope he starts - if elected - by walking everywhere and eschewing the use of all technology that is supposedly causing this imaginary bugaboo of yours.
This should actually bring the US to a leadership position in

Yes, by passing laws to make the economy work better on the command of congress, no doubt.

I thought he was going to heal the sick via miracles as he walked on water.
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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So now you're suggesting that climate change is an "imaginary bugaboo"? And what is wrong with meeting "Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Castro, Hezbolla, and Hamas"? Is that not a good thing? Name me a President or Presidential candidate who did not meet with questionable people at some stage in their candidacy or term of office.
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Jimbo wrote:

Oh, some level of warming is inarguably happening. However, claiming (without proof) it is: a) Manmade, b) Can be fixed by man, and c) Demonstrably bad for mankind is the bugaboo.

They are evil despots and/or tin pot dictators. The only "meeting" with them should be, a) To warn them of what happens if they don't knock of their vile behavior and b) A "meeting" with out military as appropriate, and, finally, c) A meeting to accept their absolute acquiescence to our terms.

It is true that FDR met with Stalin .. then again FDR was a socialist so far left that he had little to distinguish himself from full blown communism.
You'll note that Truman didn't even show up to accept Japan's surrender (or Germany's for that matter). Kennedy never met with Castro as best I can recall, and so forth.
Yes, there are counterexamples, and I stipulate that meeting with the bad guys is sometimes (rarely) a good thing. But Comrade Obama has made it clear he'd meet with the aforementioned murderous slime *without preconditions*. Like I keep saying, he is the worst kind of political vermin. It is astonishing he has any traction at all in this election let alone a credible chance of winning. It demonstrates what incredible short term vision and attention the voters have, nothing more.
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:34:16 -0500, Tim Daneliuk

You might also mention that in the name of global warming remediation the UN is promoting the largest global redistribution of wealth in the history of mankind.

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If I send out 2 bags of garbage each week, and Joe Schlebotnik, next door, sends 60 bags of garbage each week, week after week, year after year, I think it would be fair if he paid higher garbage taxes than I.
If one takes a look at the finite abilities of mother earth to give us fossil fuels, and finite space to dump our garbage, those who use and waste the most, should pay the most. I would have NO problem with the adjustment of gasoline prices, dependent on whether it gets poured into an average person's car or some fat-cat's gas-guzzling pleasure boat. Charge twice as much for health insurance from those who are smokers. If you're going to screw with the machinery, you should pay for the repairs. And that holds true on all levels. And while we're at it, why keep paying for all those jails? Move them into tents along that new railroad they need to be building for us. A whole new web of railroads. High speed and sturdy branch lines. Electrified with well-placed nukes. Get them damned trucks off the roads.
Replace Palin with Ron Paul.
r
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:12:43 -0700, D'ohBoy wrote:

Now, now, cut'em some slack. You have to make allowances for the fact that politicians are the worlds biggest egos wrapped up in sacks of bombast :-).
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Is that what you call what they're wrapped in? I would have called it something else.
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:56:06 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

So Joe's neighbor looks over the fence and say's "hey, I want what he's got" and since Joe's watchdog helped to take much of what Joe has away and push it over the fence, he'll certainly end up with it. Joe's watchdog also made Joe put a precipitator on his chimney, devices on his wagon, and generally made Joe become a better citizen. However, his neighbor is projected to take Joe's place as the major producer of garbage in the future, and Joe's neighbor has no watchdog and does not intend to do anything and is certainly not doing anything now to reduce the production of garbage.
"One hundred thirty-seven (137) developing countries have ratified the protocol, including Brazil, China and India, but have no obligation beyond monitoring and reporting emissions."
Country     Change in greenhouse gas Emissions (1990-2004) US     +15.8% Russian Federation     -32% China     +47% India     +55%
It is widely believed by many experts that the Kyoto protocol will due almost nothing to reduce global warming, but will cause an accelerated shift of economic power from developed nations to developing nations.

Comrade Rob

Most of the insurance in the U. S. is not insurance, it is employer based self insured health coverage. The employer picks up the tab, has a third party administrator who, for a very small fee, processes the claims and qualifies the providers. In most large concerns the cost sharing ratio is about 80/20 employer/employee
Because of the most recent HIPPA laws, it is not legal for an employer to even know anything about those that he is paying health care coverage for. For instance, if I look at my roster and see that old joe up there has a heart condition and I use that information to try to get him into a smoking cessation and exercise program, which I would pay for as an employer, I can be sued for same.
I'm encouraged that a few employers are actually trying a graduated premium system based on lifestyle issues such as smoking, but feel it wil be a long drawn out affair because of HIPPA and will depend on the outcome of the inevitable legal events. What is more likely to happen is what is already happening, that is, employers will continue to eliminate health care as a benefit.

ACLU will be estatic with the increased activity they will see.
Frank

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Frank Boettcher wrote:

I thought we were dong pretty well at that ourselves, transferring many, many, many bucks to the Middle East and most of the rest to China so our pets, and many of their own people, can have enough melamine to ingest.
We are in dire need of another Republican President. After all, the country isn't QUITE bankrupt yet, though Bush has worked hard at it.
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Bush is just trying to scare the US people into letting him raid the coffers prior to his departure. Just one more favour for his big business buddies.
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Jimbo wrote:
... snip

The Koolaid is strong in this one. Nothing to be done here, this one is beyond saving. Reality is going to hit hard; people said the same kinds of things about Josef and Vladimer.
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If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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RE: Subject
Wonder how much farther the stock market has to drop before Congress gets it's act together?
Today it was about $1,000,000,000,000.
Sometimes Congress gets paid to make unpopular decisions. This appears to be one of those times.
Lew
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"Lew Hodgett" wrote

Let me propose something that you won't hear on Wall Street or Capital Hill:
The absolute proof of something's true worth is how quickly it loses its value.
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In 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell, it was described as the Fall of Communism. In 2008, Wall Street fell: can this be described as the Fall of Capitalism?
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"Jimbo" wrote

The "Fall of Mortgages Being Backed by Welfare Payments" is a more apt description, eh?
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

It is debateable that the repeal of the Glass-Steigal act had anything to do with this. After all, it really didn't matter whether brokerage houses or banks were the ones getting this toxic waste from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.
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