Feel like playing it stupid do you?
Of course no one forced them to do it. The fact is that society as a whole pays the bulk of the cost when people become sick. There's a definite benefit to be had by enabling programs and advertising to try and convince people to quit smoking, drinking, exercise more and eat properly.
True but peer pressure played a fair role with me starting. During the early 60's we were still pretty ignorant on the effects of smoking. TV hero's had cigarettes hanging from their lips and the Marlboro Man hadn't died of the effects yet. When I started openly smoking my folks didn't like it but both smoked. Many if not most of my friends smoked. I'll never forget one small-town Halloween evening when the nightwatchman rounded up a dozen or more of us for general mischief. We were all sitting on the curb, most were smoking and staring at the ground when we hear a voice from behind "Well....that looks like most of my football team!". It was the coach and MY GOD did we run wind sprints the next afternoon!
Thankfully, youth of today don't have that kind of peer pressure: but I still seem quite a few smokers among the teen-early 20's crowd. And this includes some who really don't seem to make sense - smart young college types as well as others. The other thing that doesn't make sense is hospitals and nursing homes. When you hang around these facilities you see large numbers of nurses, other employees and a few doctors who absolutely know better --but they are smoking.
But then, did you ever see a health dietician who weighted less than
200 pounds? :O).RonB
Sounds like the way many of us started back then. Fortunately, I quit in the mid 70s.
I have, but most are plain dumb about food. My wife has CHF and they had her take this class and I attended.
Dietician said not to drink milkshakes as they are bad for you. I asked if milk is OK, she said yes. I asked if small servings of ice cream was OK and she said yes.
Dietician said to avoid sausage as it is bad for you.
I asked if ground pork is OK, and she said yes.
I asked if my home made sausage is OK. She said it is still sausage and not good for you.
She could not wait for the class to be over and be rid of me.
Hade I not quite when I did, the results of my chemo might have been very different. I quit smoking 10 years ago and I was never a heavy smoker 1/2 pack a day max, most of the time 5-6 cigarettes per day.
Lung cancer can bite you in the ass from many angles, just ask me. I beat it back this time.
Maybe, but I have my doubts. Quit smoking almost 15 years ago after a
2-pack+ / day habit for 35 years. I do have emphysema, lungs of an 85-year (will be 69 this week), and it's not getting better, if anything, worse. No second-hand smoke to blame it on either.Matt
ote:
That, as I said, is my concern. Luckily I am married to a very health- conscious wife who is fighting an unmediated (and so far successful) fight against genetic high cholesterol. We eat right and try to walk
3.5 to 6 miles a day with some cycling. As long as we keep going with this maybe I can push the effects off for some time.RonB
Sorry - should have said "un-medicated"
She doesn't like Statins either, eh?
the joint and muscle pain started. It progressed until she could barely get off of the floor in her mid to late 50's (she is not heavy). After talking to her doctor he pulled her off of the Statin and recommended a dosage of fish oil, some red-rice yeast, some slow release niacin and very restricted red meat. He also pushed exercise which is easy for her. After about 6 months her cholesterol level was still in the lower to mid-200's but her HDL was above 100 and LDL was in the 60's. Triglyceride numbers were good too. Frankly this blew the doctor away and he told her to keep it up. He told her the reason her overall number was still high was the higher than normal HDL was elevating it and that was not bad.
A few years later we moved and changed doctors but her new doctor was supportive of her approach. However, wifey decided to switch out her fish oil and other supplements a little and her numbers went up: and her HDL/LDL blend got worse. Her new doc scolder he a little, put her on Crestor until she got her supplements back in order and guess what - Crestor is gone now and her numbers are back in a healthy range.
We tell our kids not to use their bodies as an experimental chemistry set and she admits she was playing a bit herself but now she is doing well. She has walked about 450 miles since early February and I am at about 2/3 that.
RonB
Feel like playing it stupid do you?
Of course no one forced them to do it. The fact is that society as a whole pays the bulk of the cost when people become sick. There's a definite benefit to be had by enabling programs and advertising to try and convince people to quit smoking, drinking, exercise more and eat properly. =========== ====================================================== So, you agree that no one forced them. Your socialist argument is crap. I don't live in Canada.
Good for both of you! I too cannot tolerate the statins either (had the same problem with Lipitor). My totals were always in the low 200s but the HDL in the 60s, which is higher than "normal" - weight is a problem, but since I retired my total has dropped under 200, and my doctor isn't complaining.
Do time somewhat regularly on the treadmill (summers are way too hot to get out and walk), but am somewhat limited by the emphysema. Things should improve if I can drop the excess weight, but that's easier said than done.
Matt
I don't tolerate statins at all, zero, zip.
You do know that the ingredient that makes red-rice yeast work lowering cholesterol is a statin? Lovastatin is a natural product of that fermentation process, so if you don't tolerate statins, you probably should not consider red-rice yeast as a supplement. Her ratio is good, even though the total may be "high" (hell, with that ratio, is it really "high"?) ... too many doctors just treat the numbers and not the patient these days. AAMOf, there is a good deal of research out there now that seriously questions the need, or advisability, of most women even taking statins.
Amazing how the simple act of walking will bring all these levels down to normal levels. I wore out about 15 pair of shoes the past ten years, but took a break last year. Just started back up walking about a month ago and dropped about ten pounds thus far without doing anything else.
Beats the hell out of Big Pharma dictating to the doctors who are prone to treat just the numbers ... "better living through chemistry", I suspect, equates more to "more profits through chemical marketing" these days.
Besides, I'm highly suspicious of this profitable statin business in any regard ... Caveat emptor.
Deemed chid abuse, here, now. Not sure what the penalty is but it's child abuse in our legal system.
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:11:27 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" I remember vividly my folks chain smoking. My Mom packed 2 packs of Chesterfields in Dad's lunch pail every day. When we got in the car, the routine went: key in ignition, push the cig lighter in, pull a smoke out of chest pocket, light cig, put car in reverse, and go". EVERY time. And Dad would sit on the can and spit tobacco bits on the opposite wall. The worst came after we got a car with air conditioning and Dad wouldn't let us roll the windows down. I breathed their second hand smoke from the day I was born until left for college at 18. I have reason to believe I'm paying for it now.
Dad was diagnosed with lung cancer the day afer Thanksgiving 1990, and died in January 1991. His dying mantra: "They haven't proven anything". Mom died from smoking-related cancer in 1994.
Funny thing, my 2 sisters and I have NEVER smoked ONE cigarrette (aside from second-hand smoke).
I previously wrote: .
--------------------------------------- He died on 07/28/12, just 43 days after being diagnosed.
Doctor's estimate was eerie for it's accuracy.
He has donated to body to Case-Western medical school in Cleveland.
Something I also plan to do to a med school here in SoCal.
Lew
Yes, but the patent on Lipitor is expiring this year, so they'll try to sel= l us on something else.=20
However, the evidence is absolutely clear: Atorvastatin (i.e. Lipitor) is a= ssociated with increased life span after a heart attack. I did do a lot of = research on the scientific literature on all drugs and treatments after my = heart attack in June 2008. The benefits of using it just to lower cholester= ol are not established; most studies show little effect on life span or fre= quency of MIA (myocardial infarctions or heart attacks). Little evidence fo= r using the other cholesterol-reducing statins. And the relationship betwee= n cholesterol and heart disease is not all that straightforward: while peop= le with high cholesterol are more likely ot develop heart disease, most peo= ple who develop heart disease do not have high cholesterol. I didn't.
I smoked for 40 years from age 12 until seven month before my heart attack.= (Life is not fair!) I do have COPD, which will only get worse, but I live = in a place with little air pollution, and am installing a really good dust = extraction system in the shop. Unlike Larry, I still like the smell of ciga= rettes and tobacco, but I am not really tempted to start again; it looks my= addiction has been overcome
I ride my bike a lot, which probably raised my carbon footprint when I brea= the hard. :-)
Luigi
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