O/T: Nuclear Reactor Problems

Page 7 of 16  
On 6/1/2011 1:02 PM, chaniarts wrote:

This whole is issue is purely political and based on neither science, nor 40 years of statistical evidence with regard to the risk versus reward of nuclear electrical generation.
I listen to "Democracy Now" on the local Pacific radio daily, simply as a constant reminder as to just how much these people who produce it hate the thought of a sucessful democracy ... it is exactly the same mindset with regard to nuclear energy.
The absolutely stupidity exhibited by at least half of the shitheads populating this planet is truly amazing ... may they get what they deserve by dying in the dark.
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On 6/1/2011 12:50 PM, Swingman wrote:

In the entire history of the world, has there ever been a single instance of a successful democracy?
I'm curious. In the last 50 years, how much electrical energy has been produced, worldwide, by plants powered by (a) coal, (b) other fossil fuels, (c) nuclear energy, and (d) all other energy sources combined? During the same 50 years, how many people have been killed, and how many injured, as the result of the use of (a) coal, (b) other fossil fuels, (c) nuclear energy, and (d) all other energy sources combined? The mortality/injury rates should include the processes of extracting the energy source and transporting it to point-of-use. I don't know, but I rather suspect that the death/injury rate per megawatt for nuclear power is lower than the other categories.
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On 6/1/2011 4:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:

If you equate success with longevity, the jury is still out. (and this one won't last much longer at the current rate)

That is exactly my point, and just a much longer winded way of saying the same thing. For those who prefer wordy illumination:
Reward versus risk is a tradeoff in all basic human endeabors from hunter gathering to fishing for dinner, and nuclear energy is provably, and statistically, far less riskier than your choice of geographic location, from Joplin MO to Japan.
Nuclear energy may not be the winner in the long run, some new technology will eventually come along, but currently it is far and above the best possible "risk versus reward" choice, except to the fuzzy thinking bunch.
But you have to consider that most of the anti-nuclear bunch are of the EXACT same political mindset as those who want to outlaw male circumcision in San Francisco, a special breed of progressive dickheads who would apparently benefit greatly from the act themselves ...
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Tell 'em "Get with it, folks. LIFE is a risk." ;)

I'd prefer safe fusion to safe fission, but it's not here yet. Soon, though.

No, the world would benefit greatly from their complete testicular excision, not just a bit of skin. They'd be even more eunuch after that, huh? Oops, I meant "unique".
-- Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. -- Pete Seeger
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On 6/1/2011 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:

I think you miss my point. To the best of my knowledge the last democracy was in ancient Athens, and lasted only a relatively short time. Although people in the USA sometimes say we live in a democracy, that is not true and has never been true. I'm not aware of a single modern nation whose government is a democracy. Can you point to any presently existing democracy? Is there one? If so, where?
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On 6/2/2011 2:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:

Nope, you missed mine and took off down a rabbit trail ...
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On 6/2/2011 5:59 AM, Swingman wrote:

Then let's go back to your original point. You referred to people who "hate the thought of a successful democracy." A true democracy (as distinguished from a representative government" is a government where the people rule directly by majority vote. There is no form of government that has more potential for tyrannical rule over a minority population. Count me in as one who hates such a prospect. Fortunately, there is no true democracy in existence today. I much prefer the form of representative republican government established by the U.S. Constitution. I'll take that over democracy any day.
Your original point then compared people who hate the thought of democracy to those who hate the thought of nuclear energy. I disagree. Those who hate the thought of nuclear energy are frightened by something they don't understand. Those who hate the thought of a true democracy are frightened by something they understand perfectly well. The two groups do not have the same mindset at all.
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On 6/2/2011 10:54 AM, Just Wondering wrote:

You won't get the point until you broaden your scope ... listen to the program, then look up the concept of "progressivm".
You referred to people who

Rabbit trail ... watch the droppings.
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"chaniarts" wrote:

---------------------------------- HUH!
If the krauts can make enough money selling power to the rest of Europe, they will probably be happy to oblige.
Lew
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

huh yourself. the krauts will be buyers, not sellers.
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They'll just run an extension cord to Polandworked so well the last time....
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"dpb" wrote:

--------------------------------- When the renewable energy business starts getting subsidized at the same level the oil & coal businesses already receive, get back to me. -------------------------------------

------------------------------------ Glad to see you gained some jobs in KS. ------------------------------------

------------------------------- You are quick nto point out the wind doesn't blow 100% of the time.
So what?
Renewable energy includes lots of sources other than wind.
Thermal/solar, geo-thermal, solar/electric, tidal, etc, come to mind.
The Germans seem to addressed the base load issue.
"The plan calls for more investment in natural gas plants as a backup to prevent blackouts, the chancellor said."
Lew
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When Holland runs out, the Germans are going to be totally dependent on Russian gas. Doesn't sound really smart, but they'll know better ...
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Han
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"Han" wrote:

-------------------------------- Think methane, there is an almost an unlimited supply of poop.
Lots of waste treatment facilities are using captured methane to run Co-Gen facilities.
There is a project under construction by the State of Ohio at the Wooster Ag station to build a plant to process cattle waste and generate electric power to run the rest of the facilities which encompass several square miles.
Lew
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On 5/31/2011 8:09 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

OK, here we are... :)
Heavily involved w/ our local REC. We buy some wind power owing to the legislative mandate and the public relations end of it. It costs us 2X the cost of our conventional coal generation and almost 3X that from our share of Wolf Creek Nuclear.

Well, as long as the tax incentives are in place and the legislative mandates that make the expense pay, I suppose they will be. In the long run it's not clear that forcing up utility rates for everybody else for the benefit of a few hundred jobs and lucky landowners is an overall paying proposition but I guess we'll see how it plays out over time.

So what is what you say next...
...

...
That is the stupidest use of natural gas that one can possibly make of it... :(
And, they're trading near zero emissions and no C emissions for another increase in fossil. What happened to reducing C footprint????
All in all, I think they're making a kneejerk reaction in the totally wrong direction for the wrong reasons.
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"dpb" wrote:

------------------------------------- Annualized, what kind of money are we talking about? ----------------------------------

---------------------------- Sounds like a plan.

------------------------- You are entitled to your opinion.
The operative phrase is "Back up" not "Primary". --------------------------------

------------------------------- Look at the annualized total footprint and get back to me. --------------------------------

--------------------------------- Tell that to the Japanese.
Lew
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On 5/31/2011 10:15 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

20% mandate will raise wholesale rates by roughly (0.8*1)+(0.2)[(0.7*2) + (0.3*3)] = 1.26 --> 26%
That's just for the privilege of making the greenies feel good about themselves...

Not a real good one, but a plan nonetheless... :(

Indeed. Wasting dwindling gas supplies for central station power generation is just innately stupid.

"Primary" has to come from somewhere when the "backup" isn't...which means it still has to be there irregardless.

???
When did the last tsunami hit Germany?
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I asked: Annualized, what kind of money are we talking about? ---------------------------------- "dpb" wrote:

------------------------------------- Interestingn gibberish but it doesn't answer the question. ----------------------------------

--------------------------------------
I take it you don't accept all that oil industry propaganda about our proven natural gas reserves.
Lew
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On 6/2/2011 12:26 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Of course it answers the question. 25% higher cost for purchased power translates to at least that on the retail side. What's your current bill; raise it by one-fourth.

Not really, no, I don't. All I have to do is watch the rate at which severance tax paid by producers to State decreases from year to year despite increasing wellhead prices.
There is still gas but it is far more valuable in the long run for chemical feedstock and other uses instead of wasting it for central station generation while have other fuels far more suited for the purpose that aren't so much suited for the other.
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"dpb" wrote:

-------------------------- Actual $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. ----------------------------

-------------------------------- Yep, renewable energy gets the job done, IF we develop it.
BTW, natural gas doesn't get the job done, but it can serve as an intermediate fuel to transition away from fossil based fuels.
Think Pickens calls it a "Bridge".
Lew
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