O/T: Michael Moore gets it right sometimes.

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This is one aspect of the "Amurrrican vs. furrin" car debate that I find most amusing. Define foreign vs domestic production. More importantly which situation is more beneficial to the U.S. economy, an American car (Ford, GM, Chrysler) that is built in another country (or at least a signifacnt number of the subassemblies) or a foreign car that is built here in the U.S. paying American workers? One school of thought says that the money from the American cars go to American companies and benefits America, while the money from the foreign car leaves the country. However, that only applies to the 10-20% profit margins (that is a general estimation of profit margin). The bulk of the money spent when you buy a car goes to the costs. So the question is, which production situation puts more money into and has greater benefit to the U.S. economy? (This is not at loaded question by me, I truly have not heard a solid analysis upon which to form an opinion in the matter. My personal speculation is that a Camry built in Kentucky does for America then an F-150 built in Mexico.)
SteveP.

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Highland Pairos wrote:

I'm not sure it matters much, and probably will matter less over time. Markets are increasingly global. Trade has historically benefited all participants after the initial bumps of adjustment occur. For example, an F-150 built in Mexico means that some number of Mexican citizens can find good work at home and US residents can buy a good product at a better price. Despite all the howling we hear about trade causing a net loss of jobs, no such thing is true. I don't have the cite handy, but (and this is rough and from memory) from the Bush 41 Presidency until today (prior to the recent rise in unemployment) there were nearly *twice* as many people working in the US. Trade creates greater markets and greater opportunity for everyone.
See, for example:
http://www.freetrade.org/node/737 http://www.freetrade.org/node/37 http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v23n4/freetrade.pdf
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Highland Pairos wrote:

The same building in Fremont, CA, builds my "Jap Scrap" Toyota Tacoma, the Toyota Corolla, and the Pontiac Vibe:
<http://www.nummi.com/
The place is even UAW represented.
They've been building Toyota trucks in this plant since 1991.
Go figure...
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Sorta tells one something about the Vibe, don't it??? <G>
P D Q
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Jay Pique wrote:

Nice rhetoric. Now show us how it fits the actual numbers for the current situation.
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Jay Pique wrote:

Like I said, this is not simple:
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/782/the-years-bestand-worst-selling-cars
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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My email address is a working and easily verifiable one. If you were nearly as smart as you think you are, then you'd have done a search on it and come up with my name a long time ago. Why don't I reveal it to you? Because it irritates you that I don't. Ok with that Asshole? A siginificant number of people here use an alias. So what? You're still and asshole.

Every paragraph you write has an insult or a criticism of some sort.

There's another insult. You don't have any virtue. You're a selfish, greedy, consistent liar who has no conscious regard for anyone else except yourself. There's absolutely no virtue in that.

Maybe not you dumb fuck, but you insult people just the same. Just because you trot out a few chosen phrases and criticise someone without swearing puts you up on a pedestal as far as you're concerned.
You are an asshole of the first degree. Every time someone calls you on something, you bring out some UNVERIFIABLE answer. Care for some examples?
You were accused of prejudice at one point. You trotted out the fact that you not only had a black relative, but a black relative that was darker than most. - UNVERIFIABLE
When accused of not contributing to charity, you claimed that you not only donated to charity, but you donated anonymously, the ultimate in unselfishness. - UNVERIFIABLE
You've just claimed to have been involved and also run several companies. How about the name of those companies? If you did as good a job as you're about to claim, then there's no harm in letting people know those company names so at least once someone can verify some of your claims. You won't though, because you can't. You're a veteran liar with Doug Miller as your cowardly running mate.
That fact is that ALL YOU DO is talk without ever offering ANY type of substance. You're an asshole of the first degree and I'm perfectly happy to swear at you whenever I feel like it.
GOT THAT FUCK FACE?
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Upscale wrote:
<snip>

I think I now understand why you're not married...
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

Naw, he's being charming ... wait till he gets warmed up ...
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Honestly, I don't think I've ever sworn in front of a woman, not in person anyway.My swearing is a vice that seldom pokes it's head out. In this case it's trotted out solely for Tim's sake because he refers to it so often.
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Upscale wrote:

"Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds discuss events and small minds discuss personalities.
(Attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt but more likely it's Socrates)
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:

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Upscale wrote:

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<g> That's ok. I'm not going to marry any women on usenet.
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Upscale wrote:

I thought you'd plonked me. I did miss the nonstop cursing.

Calling someone to account for their beliefs is not an insult ... unless, of course, your beliefs are indefensible. Say ... like defending stealing.

I have not once lied here ... ever. I am also not selfish or greedy in the sense that you use the words. I do object to being stolen from - something you've defended regularly.

Are you angry because I don't respond in kind or are you angry because you have no defensible counterpoint? (I'm just curious.)

Nor will I provide you with personal details in a place like the internet. Feel free to drop by Christmas day and I'll introduce you. Oh, and I freely admit to being prejudiced, just not racist. I am prejudiced against ignorance, threat, theft, wealth redistribution, and whining - many of the things you defend so vigorously.

Precisely. The point is that it *is* unverifable*.

I'd guess that swearing tests the limit of your vocabulary and ideas.

Like I said ...
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Name at least one company that you worked for as management that can be verified. No personal information to be lost there.
Name some of the small companies you ran. No personal information to be lost there.
You won't do either because all you offer is commentary without substance. All you do is talk without ever backing ANY of it up. At least when Doug called me a liar, I was willing to put myself on the line to prove him wrong. You can't do that, can you?
Show up Christmas day? Riiiight! You say it because you know it will never happen.
You're full of unsubstantiated claims which you offer up as proof of something, but amount to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
That's your life isn't it? You've incessantly accused me of theft based solely against the rights granted every citizen in my country. Sheer sophistry without substance. As I've stated before, you're just some sad little flake without a life.
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Upscale wrote:

I was Chief Technologist at Covia Technologies.
I was VP Of Architecture at Time0 - at least one other Wrecker can verify this, though I would not ask him to do this or he'll get cursed by you.

(Incorporated in IL)
Many, many years ago, I owned T&R Communications, a sole proprietorship.
I await your apology for calling me a liar.

Waiting for that apology.

Still waiting.

No civil person considers stealing from their fellow citizens a "right".

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Then you have my apology and congratulations for offering up something of yourself as support for your words.

And I want your apology for accusing me of stealing. When you criticise me for having received Canadian health care, then you've criticised my entire country and all of it's citizens. All 30+ million of us from the lowest street person to the richest individual has used that universal health care from a simple physical to a flu shot and all the way up the ladder. We all contribute, it's our country, and as a group, we're all entitled to benefit from it. That's not stealing, it's working together and benefiting as a community, something you apparently fail to understand.
I could criticise the US for a dozen different things based solely on my opinion, but I'm not going to because I happen to have great respect for the US. Having said that, I've been wrong with my comments about US gun laws. It's part and parcel of what makes your country great and because I don't actually live there, I've been unable to fully understand. That's my only excuse.
Dave Moore
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Upscale wrote:

I tire of your strawmen. I do not criticize you for participating in that system - it is a requirement of residence in your country. You *have* to pay and thus you should absorb any consequent benefit.
What I criticize is your *defense* of such a system. That is, defending a system of forced wealth redistribution. As I have said (over and over and over and over ...), the State extracting taxes to defend the liberty of its citizens - that is, to do the business of the State - is entirely legitimate. But the State extracting taxes from one person to give it to another one causes an imbalance of liberty - it's immoral and so is defending any such act.
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Get as tired as you want flake.

Obviously, you don't have the smallest idea of what you're talking about. I can see you're quite happy to continue playing the asshole. Hey, it's your life, go for it, however it's beyond me how the people around you continue to let you exist
How about the state extracting money from it's citizens to go to war in Iraq? Have to root out all those WMD's eh? The state taking money and using it for it's own selfish means. I guess that doesn't count he? I guess we can add self delusion to your greedy, selfish nature.
You're so full of crap it's stagnating beyond imagination.
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