O/T: Michael Moore gets it right sometimes.

Page 3 of 10  
Robatoy wrote:

Not to mention that many have none at all. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have a lady friend/client who has a pink one. Hummer that is.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That is probably the real issue. Or eco drivers are have Hummer envy. ;~)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There are arguments to the contrary.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Highland Pairos wrote:

Preach preach preach preach preach. Give people a reason to do it that doesn't involve taxing them or putting them in jail.

Give people a reason to do it that doesn't involve taxing them, putting them in jail, or forcing automobile manufacturers to make cars that nobody wants on the basis of a quota system.

Don't need to. "Alternative energy sources" are highly developed. What we need to do is stop listening to the environmental activists who prevent us from using them.

No need to "change the habits" if "other tech" is going to be "on line" unless by "other tech" you mean some POS econut thing that doesn't work as well as what we have now.

It's really rather pointless. Its main reason for existence is that under the California quota system hybrids are "green" and they are actually usable cars, albeit horribly expensive and not terribly efficient.

So tell the Congress to pull the plug on California's quota system and keep it pulled.

You have heard wrong. You can lease fuel cell Hondas now, today, that work fine. Most existing cars can be converted to run on hydrogen as well. The only real obstacles are ramping up hydrogen production and the building of enough hydrogen filling stations make them useable over most of the country. But this doesn't automatically solve any problems--the hydrogen currently comes mostly from natural gas via a cracking process--we'll need to build a large number of nuclear-electric plants before electrolytic hydrogen becomes viable without the use of petrochemicals.

Why bother with it at all?

Hydrogen fuel cell is on the streets now.

It does when all it gains you is the privilege of selling cars in California.

--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Where did you read that Steve indicated that "YOU" did not need a SUV. I think he clearly states that "most" people do not need trucks or SUV's. In all acutuality, in Houston where probably more trucks and SUV's are are purchased than most any where else most never see cargo. Most only have a couple of people riding in them and they have never seen dirt under their wheels. Basically the world does not follow your foot steps or do as you think.

If you "could not have afforded" $4 per gallon for gasoline it would have been a poor decision to buy a vehicle that does not get better gas mileage. I actually drove my Tundra more than the Honda when the gasoline prices were high. Because you and I apparently have disposable income the increase in g gasoline prices did not affect our decision making about which vehicle to drive. and yes, it was a great buying opportunity, it has been for the last 4 or 5 years and because of the current economy this year it is an excelent buying opportunity for most any vehicle with the exception of a few very high gase mileage vehicles.

Well where the money was being made was kinda short sighted by the Big 3 wasn't it. The import builders are not suffering as much because they understood what would sell when sales are week, and those that can continue to make sales during hard times are those that will survive. That just kinda falls into a common sense way of thinking.

Again, you are partially correct. These bigger vehicles are indeed what people like but not necessarily what they can afford. A company with a sound business plan will understand what their customers will always be able to afford.

I cannot agree there either. Since 2000, gasoline prices have been on the rise and have been higher than ever since September of 2005. R&D should have been on target long before the prices of gasoline went drastically higher. Your second statement is entirely correct especially the mention of lack of leadership which led to the unions literally "out smarting" the Big 3 leaders. Status Quo ate their lunch.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

What keeps the foreign brands out front is either a lot of perceived value, innovation and the biggie: sexy designs. European cars scream 'cool'! Innovation and design is leading the pack. The big 3 haven't had an original thought since putting tail- fins on a car. Take that 'droop-nose' that Audi came up with a few years back, where the grille was drooped below the front bumper. Now look at the Chevy Malibu...heck, even the Ford trucks now have that 'look'. People flocked to Audis and Subarus for all-wheel drive in a good looking comfortable safe car with good economy for decades. The big 3 sat on their hands.
Bad labour deals, complacency in innovation, and the knowledge that the government will want to keep them around in case there is a BIG war, is what keeps those Big 3 around.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

Actually, they bought part of Subie and Saab, and sold Subarus and Trailblazers as Saabs. The Saab 9-7... Appalling...
There is some evidence that Ford got some value from Volvo, as Ford has done well in recent crash tests. Ford does make some good cars, like the Mondeo, they just need to bring more of them to the US. Europe always got the Cosworth Escort, we got the other one. Last year, I drove a Fusion and really liked the car.
I don't think GM learned very much from Subaru.
I think Chrysler should be allowed to die. My Jeeps have been absolute garbage. My wife likes them, but the only saving grace for us once the warranty ends is that I'm mechanically inclined.
I'm a big Toyota / Honda / Subaru fan, but back in October, I rented a Pontiac G6. I thought it drove rather nicely. This car had 28k RENTAL MILES on the clock, a LOT for a rental, but didn't have a single rattle! It accelerated nicely with no torque steer, and handled much better than I would have expected. It did have a low rent interior, but the car definitely showed a far better build quality than past GM cars I've driven.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Note that Ford is the company that is saying they might just weather this whole mess without any help from the government. They would like a nice little line-of-credit as a fallback, but apparently they are in better shape than the others.

You've got to be willing to learn. GM has always wanted to be a rule and law unto itself. 50 years ago they could.

But, what about my buddy who bought one of those "lifetime warranty" Jeeps a couple years ago . . . ?? Personally, I like Chrysler's willingness to design and build distinctive stuff. They're at least trying to do interesting things, but their marketing or something just isn't keeping up with the effort. Also, their best stuff seems to be from 10 years ago, though they do have some new designs nothing as daring as the Viper or PT Cruiser or Prowler.
Bill Ranck Blacksburg, Va.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If we let them die, will all their patents suddenly become available?
A friend of ours has a G6 and she is tickled pink. 4 of us went to dinner in it a while back and we had plenty room, it all looked pretty well finished for an American car. It ain't no Audi. nor is it trying to be one. Quality is relative, I guess. I drove a Ford 500 a while back (now called the Taurus again) and it is a nice car. Handled well, solid.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I would love to tour the Southland In a travelling minstrel show Yes I'd love to tour the Southland In a traveling minstrel show Yes I'm dying to be a star and make them laugh Sound just like a record on the phonograph Those days are gone forever Over a long time ago, oh yeah I have never met Napoleon But I plan to find the time I have never met Napoleon But I plan to find the time 'Cause he looks so fine upon that hill They tell me he was lonely, he's lonely still Those days are gone forever Over a long time ago, oh yeah
I stepped up on the platform The man gave me the news He said, You must be joking son Where did you get those shoes? Where did you get those shoes?
Well, I've seen 'em on the TV, the movie show They say the times are changing but I just don't know These things are gone forever
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Have you? Fuckface?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

I have been on the leadership staff of 3 companies, in all cases reporting to the CEO (with one brief exception). I have run a couple very small companies of my own.

This no doubt, is you being nice.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

--
> Tim Daneliuk =A0 =A0 snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
> PGP Key: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.tundraware.com/PGP /
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

I didn't think we were discussing me. I thought the conversation was about the Big Three auto companies. I'm confused.

Some did better than others. The ones that failed did so due to poor leadership. The buck always needs to stop with the people in charge. Unfortunately, it often does not. I lost a long term friendship with one CEO when I told him that *we* the leaders were responsible for a noteworthy failure and owed the worker bees an apology. He ... um ... didn't see it that way. (He owns a coffee shop now.)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Do you include the folks at Consumer Reports in with those half-wits? Oh - I'm cutting the best hand-cut dovetails I've ever cut, so I should be able to command respect (and prices) like Garrett Hack?
In most things I agree with you, but this jumped out at me as a little bit ludicrous.
JP
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jay Pique wrote:

No, they're quarter-wits at best.

--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jay Pique wrote:

I'm not questioning that there has been a quality problem in Detroit. There has been. My point is merely that this is not the central issue before us today as they come whining to the rest of us to bail their butts out. The central issue is their insane labor costs. Oh, and BTW, I do think Detroit is building a better and better product - even CR has noted this in some sectors of the auto marketplace.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, I did see that an American car did take top honors in a category this past year. It was "Best American Sedan". I love that one. Saying Detroit is making a better and better product says pretty much nothing. One would certainly hope they aren't turning out vehicles that are progressively worse! If what you are saying is that they are closing the gap on foreign competition then I'm not so sure I agree. And, regardless, the perception is that they are making an inferior product and the consumers are turning elsewhere.
JP
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jay Pique wrote:

Not so. We own both Japanese and American vehicles in my household. Both are very good at what they do. Do I think *all* American cars are competitive with their foreign counterparts? No. But there are good models from which to choose. The idea that the foreign cars are innately better on their face is ... well, an oversimplification. The Japanese, for example, have had plenty of quality problems that kind of get glossed over - Izusu and Mitsubishi leap to mind. As always, research and homework pay dividends when buying new transportion. That said, I've never had a Honda product in my hands that was not flawless. This is both the case as we've owned their vehicles and in my extensive travels renting them. OTOH, the worst car I've driven in decades was a Volvo. It was well built but had abysmal ergonomics.

We will get something like 12" of snow here in metro Chicago this very night. My Chevy SUV will walk through it effortlessly with comfort and stability to spare. So will selected Japanese vehicles. There is no obvious winner. It depends on what you buy, how you maintain the vehicle, and most importantly, how you drive.

I'm not sure what "foreign" even means these days. Many of the most lauded cars are built here with US labor. They just don't have the legacy labor costs with which GM, Ford, and Chrysler must contend.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.