O/T: Knee Jerk

Page 1 of 8  
Sen. Max Baucus reports health care bill out of committee.
Sen. Mitch McConnel immediately grabs mike and opposes.
Must be a good bill.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Last count, Baucus has one vote for his bill.
Right now, with the Kennedy seat vacant, the Democrats can't break a filibuster (they still need 60 votes and there are only 59 Democrats). Interestingly, if another Democrat dies - leaving them with 58 - they'll only need 58 votes to invoke cloture.
Pray for the continued breathing of Robert Byrd.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
And naturally, they get to count the communist, Liberian and so forth as Democrats... all non-Republican.
Martin
HeyBub wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
When I was an obnoxious teen, bitching about how screwed up things were, the adults would ask "And your proposed solution for correcting the problem is . . .?"
Opposing something is very easy. Fixing something you think isn't working - well that takes a lot more time and effort.
When opposing a change one must always consider the price of doing nothing. The uninsured get medical treatment when it's an emergency. And emergency room costs are multiples of the cost of doctor visits before things get critical - and really expensive.
The other thing to be aware of is which industries and which lobbyists are opposing the change, what ever the proposed change is, and examine their reason(s) for that opposition. I'm willing put money on the it's not for altruistic reasons.
And if you've ever had a "problem" with your health insurance company, especially if it's a life threatening thing, be aware that it's in THEIR best interest for you to die - before they have to expend any money on you. At least with the government you CAN try and get your elected congress person and senator to look into your problem. With an insurance company - your screwed - AFTER you probably have spent months on the phone talking to someone in a Call Center - in Pakistan or the Philipines or Honduras - who may or may not speak english.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
charlieb wrote:

And this naturally leads to the conclusions that having the *government* run things is a better choice? Seriously? An institution rife with corruption, graft, payoffs, virtually no limits on power, almost no meaningful redress (try calling your Senator, and the Honduran call center will seem like a well oiled machine)? An institution with almost no meaningful feedback when it fails insofar as its programs, once instantiated, are outside the election/unelection process?
It seems that the pro-government healthcare bunch have adopted a breathtaking piece of logic: The government that has run Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA into fiscal and operational ruin should be asked to do more of the same. "Since they've already screwed things up beyond belief, lets have them do even more of it."
Astonishing and profoundly stupid.
The real answer is remove bureaucratic impediments to interstate competition among private healthcare providers, put a feedback loop in place to punish the ambulance chasers that manufacture insane legal claims, and inch the government *out* of healthcare entirely in the next 25 years or so.
You don't have a right to healthcare anymore than you do to a house, a car, or a vacation. All these things must be earned.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

For just one minute, why don't you try substituting "FREEDOM" in place of your continual healthcare attacks?
Because in all honesty, many people who face serious difficulties with their healthcare view it NO DIFFERENTLY than a direct limitation of their freedom. I KNOW this to be fact. And, it has the exact same effect. Unfortunately, you don't have the imagination or intelligence to realize that. You take advantage of your right to freedom by continually whining how much it costs you. I wonder how you'd deal with it if that part of your freedom was removed?
Pathetic little wimp. Can you sink any further?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Upscale wrote:

Your "freedom" is not such thing. It's at the expense of another citizen. Your "free" healthcare means someone else has less money for their own family's needs. My worldview is not built on stealing, yours is. My worldview isn't dependent on impoverishing other people. Your's is. I don't ask third parties in government to do my stealing. You do.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
BULLSHIT! Freedom costs money. It costs more money that it would ever cost for a national healthcare service. It costs citizen's money. And, freedom costs lives. Armed forces who fight overseas to preserve the American way of life. Local police forces, National Guard. Where EXACTLY do you think the money comes from to pay for those services?
Are you really so self absorbed that you can't see that?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Upscale wrote:

Defending the borders benefits everyone more-or-less equally. Stealing from some citizens to give to others harms freedom. Your kind of "freedom" only exists because you are diminishing another person's freedom.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The kind of freedom I'm talking about is much more involved and costly than your trivial reference to it as border control. It consists of the society you live in that permits fools like you to spout your crap. That freedom costs money. It's the money for police forces that let you walk the streets without being attacked. It's also the money involved in hiring the people to legislate the laws that tolerate people like you. It's even the infrastructure that takes your garbage away and paves the streets you drive on.
As usual, you're such a useless twit, that I keep finding myself drawn into your rhetoric. One day perhaps, you might find yourself somewhere that you can make a real contribution. But, it's certainly not rec.woodworking where you've contributed absolutely nothing in several years of showing everybody what an selfish, whining, little ass you are.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Upscale wrote:

At least when I "Contribute" it is not enabled by first stealing what my neighbor has worked for. You're drawn in to these conversations because you are desparate to defend your marauding and theft ... but there is none...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Glad you framed Contribute in apostrophes, because you don't contribute shit. Unless of course, you count the whining you do as an art form. And as to defending myself, there's 30 million other Canadians that defend our healthcare, or most of them anyway. You? For a defence, you've got people like Miller who is a confirmed liar and kiss ass. The two of you should run off together and form your own country where whining and brown nosing actually pay something. Then at least you might obtain that wealth you claim is being stolen from you every day.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Upscale wrote:

I contribute a regular reminder that you and people like you are not noble, kind, honorable or decent. You are purveyors of theft and fraud. And it's important to keep that spotlight brightly lit so you can never delude yourself into thinking anything else.

Not the ones in my own family that actually work in the healthcare system.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That sounds like they are unionized squabblers.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

No, they are first responders entrenched in the system for decades.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Riiiggghhht!!!! Notice when it comes to you giving examples in your life of how you contribute, you always come up with extreme examples of what your relatives are or do.
When called about being negative about blacks, you claim to not only have a black relative, but one that was blacker than most.
When questioned on charity, you claimed to make many charitable contributions ~ anonymously, the epitome of giving.
When it's suggested that your relatives are union trouble makers in the medical industry, you respond with the thought that they're first responders ~ emergency responders.
Do you see how all that sounds? It tells us that you're full of bullshit because you continually counter with the best in humanity (your relatives) while you contribute nothing and exist solely to whine and complain all day without giving a shred of consideration to anybody.
Daneliuk, you are full of shit. I know it, everybody else knows it. I suspect (although I could be wrong) even Doug Miller knows it, but he supports you just to hassle me.
You feel free to question my integrity by calling me evil and a thief solely based on the fact that I benefit from country wide universal health care. I know it's all you have. And, if that's the best form of attack you can muster with your screwed up logic, then you stick with that. But, we both know what's really true. I don't have to conjure up extreme examples of contributions by relatives to defend myself. Compared to me, there's nothing you can offer to bolster yourself.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You certainly have an active imagination. I'm not going to allow you to drag me into this argument, though.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

drag
Maybe, but it makes life interesting. However, if you want to go on record as being a supporter of Daneliuk, don't let me stand in your way. Personally, I don't like trying to make my way through the traffic on an eight lane highway.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I just want it on the record that I am quite happy that Upscale can benefit from the taxes I pay to support universal health care, and that I actually would not mind all that much to pay more if it improved my fellow citizen's access to health care.
He is in no way stealing from me, no more than anyone who benefits from a program that we the people, in our wisdom or lack thereof, have voted in favour of through our duly elected representatives.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Luigi Zanasi wrote:

How about the likely millions of your fellow citizens that do not share your eleemosynary spirit? It's one thing to volunteer to help - most all of us have done that in one way or another in our lives. It's quite another to be forced to do so by law.
Thought Experiment: Assume there was no national healthcare in your nation. Would you willingly send part of your paycheck to people you do not know, are not in your circle of family and/or friends, and otherwise strangers? I say the answer based on the charitable giving in the US and Canuckistan is a resounding *YES*. People DO like caring for others. Upscale and others that share his worldview act as if in the absence of government force there would no help available at all. It's utterly false. In actual fact, when people have more money in their pocket, they give more to charity. The real reason that charity-at-the-point-of-a-gun is so popular is twofold:
- There bulk of the citizenry gets more out of social mooching programs than they put in. They've been taught that taking something that is not yours is wrong unless they take from people that are rich. Since there are way more poor- and middle-class people than wealthy ones, mooching almost always manages to pass. The current US debate on healthcare is not a mooching vs. no-mooching debate. It is a debate about *what kind* of mooching and whether or not the existing moochers will win or lose in the proposed changes.
- The political creatures love mooching programs because they can: A) Buy votes with them and B) Attempt social engineering that suits them.
All in all, social programs are an unholy mess. I applaud your willingness to help your fellow man. I share that with you. What I do not share is a willingness to have some malignant politician decide for me just who should get what I've worked for and how much. I want to make that kind of call for myself...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.