O/T: It won't go away by itself. (Verrry scary political)

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Robatoy wrote:

God, or god, are you boring!
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Jack
Go Penns!
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http://jbstein.com
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Robatoy wrote:

Yeah, that really helped you out...
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Jack
Go Penns!
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I blame the campaign finance laws.
Special interests, lobbyists, and the like were a foil for the great unwashed masses. Sometimes the monied interests won, sometimes the mob won. It was a balancing act.
When the special interests won, the mob would get all exercised and vote out the crooks. When the mob won, those financially affected would pour money into the next election.
It evened out.
Now, with the special interest mostly emasculated, the rabble wins more often.
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Here's an example of a "WMD" with which everyone can agree:
Sadaam Hussein.
Decommissioning this particular WMD turned out okay.
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Morris Dovey wrote:

The ideals and principles of American democracy, to coin a phrase, is not a suicide pact. Here's an example from another realm.
Orthodox Judaism holds that there are 613 Commandments - plus thousands more regulations based upon these commandments. These rules were handed down directly from God and God is not fond, to say the least, of anyone violating them. Still, breaking these rules and commandments is not only permitted but required and meritorious when a life would be at risk if the rules were followed.*
Would you say a Jewish surgeon called to save a life on the Sabbath was showing a "disdain" for his religious teachings? Would you complain that a Jewish soldier firing back at an enemy was not adhering to his "principles?" If a leaders "falsehoods" are considered evidence of evil, what about God lying to Abraham?
If you assert that "polarization" is a bad thing, how do you explain the truth: "If you've got two Jews, you automatically have three opinions"?
--------- * For the purist, there ARE three exceptions.
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HeyBub wrote:

Ok - did I suggest that it was?

From politics to religion? Hmm...
It's occurred to me that God must be a pragmatist /and/ have a sense of humor.

I'm generally not much inclined to stand in judgement of another person's religious beliefs nor their exercise of same.

If you spell "God" with a capital G, then I would suggest that standing in judgement of Him might not be your best choice.
I will not make that same suggestion when it comes to politicians.

My explanation: Everybody is opinionated. It's not a big deal - there are times when I have three opinions all by myself. :)
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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wrote:

I believe that was in item eight of the decalogue.
Literally.
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Tom Watson wrote:

Yes, thank you. I'm glad you picked up on that. :)
[ Clearly, there is a need for a sniley type icon to indicate sarcasm (where a "snile" is a facial expression about midway between a sneer and a smile). ]
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Don't forget the "smarl" for which Cheney is the poster child.
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"Smarl". I like that. How appropriate. Fits perfectly.
Max
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I use
:-\
--
Kiva - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/lender/david87375440
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Dave Balderstone wrote:

Amazing - Thunderbird even has an emoticon (Tho I think charlieb's is an improvement).
Thanks!
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Tom Watson wrote:

Yeah, but, since there's no penalty, it's more of a "suggestion."
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Robatoy wrote:

There is a difference between a screwup and a conscious intent to mislead people. I recognize that either is a possible explanation in the circumstances we're discussing. But, after 6 years *no one* has produced a shred of evidence that Bush/Cheney et al knowingly mislead us. Quite to the contrary, their detractors have regularly demonstrated themselves to be outright liars: Pelosio lied about the CIA, Gepettobama lied about curtailing earmarks, Frank lied about the health of the Fannie/Freddie system, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Does this make W's administration fabulous? No, of course not. But it's hard for me to take criticism of W very seriously when it is primarily leveled by demonstrable liars in their own right.
Like I said, get some real proof of your contentions and you'll be awarded a medal for being a Hero Of The Soviet Sheeples Revolution In AmeriKKKa...
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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On Fri, 22 May 2009 08:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
No, I don't think so.
I believe Tim is saying that, in all the blather about it, no one has presented conclusive evidence that Bush lied about anything. There is a very big difference between a deliberate, conscious intent to mislead and acting on bad intelligence.
Have you never presented a statement you believed to be fact that was later shown to be wrong? If that's the case you are quite a unique individual. But, does that mean you lied?
Of course, if the speaker is already despised, for whatever reason, any incorrect statements will be interpreted as lies, whether or not they really are.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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Tom Veatch wrote:

And ... with considerable irony ... it is Bush's most severe critics in the political arena that have turned out to be the demonstrable liars.
FWIW, I think what went on there was way more complex than the Bush Haters and the Bush Supporters grant. I think there was a combination of forces and actions at work:
- Saddam's intransigence even though he was a demonstrable butcher and was openly supporting Palestinian suicide terrorists.
- The world's intel community coming to approximate agreement, possibly skipping a few steps of proof, because pretty much everyone knew the guy was a monster and needed to be stopped.
- There is some credible evidence (not proof) that Russian Spetsnaz special forces moved "sensitive materiale'" into the Syrian Bekka valley from Iraq.
- Bush/Cheney's unwillingness to divulge sensitive operational intel to the world media to prove their case and instead trusting that their fellow legislative citizens like Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Durbin, et all (who almost universally voted to go to war) would do the right thing *during the war*. The administration was wrong. The sheer hubris, arrogance, selfishness, and treachery of the political Left was breathtaking and almost record setting. (The only time I've seen worse in my lifetime at least was Johnson and McNamara lying through their teeth about a win in Viet Nam using their policies while American GIs died for nothing.) Even Nixon looks like a stone cold saint by comparison to today's Left scumbags.
As crummy as the Right has been, the Left continues to accelerate to be much orders of magnitude worse.
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On Fri, 22 May 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Tim Daneliuk

J'accuse.
J'accuse.
J'accuse.
BushCheney's reasoning was syllogistic:
All tyrants have WMD's
Saddam is a tyrant
Saddam has WMD's
how many flaws can you find in the syllogism?
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Tom Watson wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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What if you decided to give the 'others' the wherewithal to kill each OTHER off?
You guys want to 'off' each other? Here's some toys!
Nothing like fomenting a destructive rivalry with the end result being a smaller, tired all-shot-hell opponent?
I'm sure HeyBub would approve.
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