O.T. from Afganistan

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Renata,
Can you name one country that the US has invaded or fought a war with where in the aftermath, we pillaged and stole that country's natural resources? OR was forced to sell them to us exclusively for a fraction of it's value? Do we not buy oil on the world marked at prices set by OPEC?
I really don't understand this war for oil thing.
-- Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
wrote:

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Can you name a country we (almost, ok) unilaterally invaded, pre-emptively?
I don't think it's going to be as blatant as you make it out, but doesn't mean we ain't gonna have "deals" with the said nation to get the pipeline thru, the oil out, etc., once things settle down, or even before.
Renata
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:48:20 -0500, "Al Reid"

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Because I could conceivable decide to cut my fingers off with a bandsaw doesn't make it likely that I will. I guess it's your right to presume the worst, even if there is no good reason, based on historical precedence, to hold that belief.
BTW, If we were after Iraq's oil, why didn't we take it during the first Gulf war?
-- Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
wrote:

country's
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Yeah, we pretty much invaded Cuba (both during the Spanish American war and the Bay of Pigs), Mexico (a couple of times I believe), the Phillipines (after we took them from Spain), Columbia (in order to take Panama for a canal), Grenada......... I am sure that I am missing a few. I am pretty sure we had at least as much provocation and valid reason for invasion in the case of Iraq as any of the above instances, and I believe more.
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlinknospam.net says...

In mp's world, it's even better than that. Rather than using 9/11 to attack Saudi Arabia and grab the richest oil fields in the region, we decided to attack Afghanistan first (a country with no, read that, no oil exports worthy of mention), then Iraq, a country with a deteriorating oil production infrastructure. Yet, the attack on Iraq was "all about oil". But an attack on Saudi wouldn't have been?
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mp wrote:

You're right of course. The only answer to the problem is to nuke the entire Mid-East until the sand boils. No more Irna/Iraq/Isreali/etc problems. I'd even bet that the N Koreans crap so hard that they start negotiating in earnest. Besides, we can break up the boiled sand afterwards and sell it as commemorative night lights. Whatcha think?
Dave in Fairfax
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want to

Saudi
You'd have to sell the 8mpg SUV and buy a bike.
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mp wrote: dave in Fairfax wrote:

I get better milage than that in my truck and besides, the oil wouldn't be hurt under the glass. Remove the night lights, then the oil, no muss no fuss. Also, no more crap from that part of the world, less from any other part. Dave in Fairfax
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I have to chime in on this point. I agree with the writer's sentiment overall - particularly that our current administration is untrustworthy. And I agree that Saudi Arabia had a lot to do with enabling the events of 9/11.
But - I have to take issue with the statement that the Taleban had nothing to do with 9/11. The Taleban hosted Bin Laden and his ilk, and made it possible for them to conduct training of thousands of Al Qaeda operatives on Afghani soil - including some of the 9/11 hijackers. True, it was not the Taleban that executed the events of 9/11, but there's no doubt at all that they helped make it possible.
I personally don't support the invasion of Iraq (though I do support our troops - an important distinction!), but I sure as hell support the overthrow of the Taleban. I think that any response short of that would have been unacceptable. I don't know why we bothered to ask them to turn over Bin Laden, though - it's not as though we would have walked away if they had. Nor should we have.
PQ
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want to

Saudi
The US informed India, Iran, Pakistan, and Russia of plans for a "limited military engagement" against Afghanistan in May/June 2001, well before the 9/11 events. I've read some reports of this myself in Indian media, as well as a few BBC articles and Janes. I believe Paul O'Neill also mentions in his book that planning for war started in the very early days of the Bush admin. The 9/11 events were not the reason for the invasion, as it was already being planned before the events even took place.
We don't even know who was flying the planes involved in the 9/11 attacks, and we probably will never know. Quite a few of the "identified" pilots on the hijacked planes are alive and well.
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Do you get your news from the National Inquirer? Or do you just make it up as you go? This is just absurd.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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attacks,
on
No, I don't make anything up. Here's one link and you can look up more for yourself.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
I think there might have been on or two more.
I wonder if the FBI used the same intelligence sources as Bush and his gang.
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Like I said before, the mental gymnastics to manufacture this into a conspiracy theory must really give you a headache. What's so hard to understand? Several of the hijackers, who were filmed on video tape going through security so their looks are known, were using stolen identities. This is a big surprise?

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admin.
9/11 happened early in the administration. Don't you recall the panic about how a brand new president would handle the tragedy? What you should realize also is that there are individual plans in place to attack every country on the planet whether or not we intend to. That includes whatever haven of misinformation you live in. It is called intelligence and it is why we are rarely at a loss for a plan when we have to do something in a hurry.
Frank
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about
Like I said earlier, the invasion was in the planning stages well in advance of 9/11.

on
That's very comforting. Thanks for sharing that.

are
It's ironic that what you'd call intelligence has been proven to be lies and deception. I do agree with you though about plans for the invasion already being in place.
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Well it is admittedly a supposition on my part, but I can't see it any other way. Most modern militaries have plans for attacking and defending against each other before they ever have a need to do so. Why does this surprise you?
Frank
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other
against
There's a difference between defending your nation and attacking those that pose no threat.
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Just out of curiosity mp, what exactly would a country have to do to meet your criteria for "pose a threat?" Harboring, abetting, and encouraging a group that carried out an attack against our country apparently doesn't meet that criteria, just exactly how big a plain of smoking glass would you need to see before you decided someone was a threat?
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlinknospam.net says...

Seems also that Afghanistan would be a high priority in that planning. I believe a previous president, (i.e. BILL CLINTON) launched a cruise missile or two into Afghanistan at a couple of terrorist training camps. The attacks were ineffectual of course, since the terrorists were using caves, the intelligence was old, and there was some rumor of someone having tipped off the wrong people about a strike in planning, but the dangers posed by that set of terrorists was not a new bit of information. Thus, plans for military action in that region would not be out of line with prudent thinking; AAMOF, it would be downright dereliction of duty not to have had such plans in place given the actors in that region.
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admin.
Regime change has been the official policy of the US since the bill was enacted into law on October 31, 1998 by Bill Clinton. I would, then not be surprised that some contingency planning was taking place by the new administration during the first part of George Bush's term, which began in January of 2001. Remember that the cowardly, terrorist attacks occurred less than 9 months after President Bush took office.
Again, in the 1990's, ex-president Clinton, along with John Kerry, and most of the world believed that Iraq had WMD's. You cannot just ignore/rewrite history because you have a disdain for the current president. back then as well.

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