O.T. from Afganistan

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does
diverted
At the current rate, two years of military spending is about a trillion dollars. So future spending is indeed trillions and trillions.
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No argument so far...

.. but this is completely disconnected from reality.

They *are* a sovereign nation, you know. That's what sovereign nations do.

There isn't any oil to speak of in Afghanistan. We went there to eliminate the terrorists that attacked us, and the regime that sheltered and sponsored them.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Axshuallly, I believe there's a huge oil pipeline that is desired to cross Afghanistan from north to south - i.e. the shortest distance from the oil fields to the sea is across Afghanistan.
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What oil fields would you be referring to? Certainly not any in the Middle East. Did you happen to look at a map before posting this? Afghanistan is totally landlocked, and at no point is it closer to the sea than about two hundred fifty miles.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

OK, I conceed I misspoke about an "oil" pipeline, how about a natural gas one instead?
From part of an October '02, US DOE website <http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/afghan.html>:

The BBC also ran a story in Dec. '02 about the agreement signing <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2608713.stm :

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[snip] Hey, mp, ya listening to that? No oil pipeline in Afghanistan.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Not so fast.
Here's a clip that provides a bit more context:
"On February 12, 1998, John J. Maresca, vice president, international relations for UNOCAL oil company, testified before the US House of Representatives, Committee on International Relations. Maresca provided information to Congress on Central Asia oil and gas reserves and how they might shape US foreign policy. UNOCAL's problem? As Maresca said: "How to get the region's vast energy resources to the markets." The oil reserves are in areas north of Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia. Routes for a pipeline were proposed that would transport oil on a 42-inch pipe southward thru Afghanistan for 1040 miles to the Pakistan coast. Such a pipeline would cost about $2.5 billion and carry about 1 million barrels of oil per day. Maresca told Congress then that: "It's not going to be built until there is a single Afghan government. That's the simple answer."
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are
is
Ok, so I guess then that the Bush administration was stuck without a viable way to build a pipeline. They had the invasion of Afghanistan preplanned and by an amazing stroke of luck, 9/11 happened. Bush must have done cartwheels when he figured out how he had fell ass-backward into this situation. Better yet, you are one small step away from the viewpoint that the administration planned 9/11 themselves just to build the pipeline and benefit all of their oil buddies.
Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?
Frank
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viable
Bush had to fight for Afghanistan. As soon as the towers collapsed Rumsfeld was hopping up and down wanting to jump into Iraq.

Conspiracy theories aside, we'll never know the truth about the 9/11 events as the Bush admin has critically underfunded and stonewalled the official inquiry every step of the way. How much did Ken Star spend investigating the Monica bj affair? Was it $150 million or so? The 9/11 inquiry has a limited timeline, a piddly $14 million budget, and zero access to the information it needs to do it's job.

Yes.
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Showing you that our priorities are in being a moral, God-fearing nation.
Renata
--snip--

-snip-
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HUH? Through which of the OTHER unstable neighbors would that be? Pakistan, or Kashmir/India?
Think you'd better find something else to try to sound knowledgeable about. Kazakhstan/Baku and points west, maybe. Lots of pipe there already.
Now lets talk mountains and pumps....

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hold
the
them.
That's what some people think. Other's may think that the Taliban's refusal to sign a pipeline agreement just a few months beforehand might have something to do with it too. The Caspian oil basin is probably the largest untapped oil reserve in the world, by some estimates much larger than the Persian Gulf reserves. In order to get that oil out of the region, an overland pipeline route to the Indian Ocean is needed. That's where the Afghanistan pipeline route comes in and its strategic importance and cannot be underestimated. Having free and unfettered access to this oil is of many many magnitudes greater in importance to the Bush admin than a few Islamic terrorists in the mountains.
We can look at the permanent US military bases being built in Afghanistan that follow the proposed pipeline route and suggest that it's a coincidence. Maybe all the terrorists live along the proposed route?
Yet another coincidence is that once Karzai signed the pipeline agreement with the US most of the promised funding for reconstruction vaporized.
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I wish you'd make up your mind. Are we on the verge of running out, or have the Russians just discovered more oil than we can possibly imagine?

Absolutely nonsense, as even a brief glance at a map will show. By far the shortest route from the Caspian basin to the ocean is directly south across Iran to the Persian Gulf, some 400 miles. The next shortest route is west through Iran, Iraq, and Syria to the Mediterranean, some 700 miles.

What planet are you from?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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You claim that an overland route through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean is "needed". Your word. Not mine. Yet the facts are plain: routes to the Persian Gulf and to the Mediterranean are shorter and cross less rugged terrain. An overland route through Afghanistan is therefore not needed. And your claim is clearly false.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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is
Persian
An
is
Then why isn't a route being built through Iran ultimately terminating in Syria? The answer is obvious.
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Of course it is: unstable governments in both of those places. If our objective was simply to get a pipeline built, that's a much easier route -- and we would have *no* trouble finding a pretext for invading either nation, if that were our intent.
South through Iran is an even easier route physically, and clearly militarily as well, as their would be one less nation to invade (assuming, again, some actual correlation between the real world and the fantasyland you inhabit).
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug
This has been in the news, and you apparently don't really know much about what you're so definitively dismissing. Perhaps you ought to expand your sources of news, or sumptin'
Renata
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:55:29 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

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It's a NG pipeline. Not an oil pipeline. So much for the asinine contention that "Afghanistan was all about oil".
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com says...

In addition, the people who have the most to gain from such a pipeline are the Russians.
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I don't think anyone said it was ALL about oil. The point is there is a possibility that there was more to it than simply OBL's hideout spot. Possibility. That's all. Not being in the upper echelons of power, I can't know fer sure. Hopefully, history will tell the tale accurately, once enough time has passed.
Renata
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:55:27 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

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