O/T: Food for thought

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Not even the teensiest bit.
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wrote:

Could'a fooled me.
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On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:30:26 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"

This:
"Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into electricity."
Is something that I've been saying for at least 30 years. Former Washington State governor Dixie Lee Ray once said that we should be storing all our spent nuclear waste where we could get at it easily because one day we would want it to be able to use the energy remaining in it. Instead we have adopted a policy of trying to hide it as far away as possible.
Ah! the foolishness of man!
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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It's kinda like he said "look at all the wheat we have, let's figure out how to make bread out of it".
Oh, wait, we *already* know how to do that.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com /
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On Feb 13, 1:03 am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:

I think the point there is simple: we know how, but we're not doing it.
We need to begin doing it, something like me and losing weight.
2050 puts it into the era when my grandchildren will be coming up for retirement, but with one exception, they've got their heads too far up their asses to get involved in anything outside themselves...from what I've seen, that's not at all unusual, and is one result of making it too frigging easy for several generations, starting with mine. They, though, are the second generation that has started out expecting to begin with more than their parents are finishing with.
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On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:03:48 GMT, the infamous snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) scrawled the following:

Yes, but since raw ore transformed into fuel is a few dollars cheaper than reprocessing, it is being used instead of reprocessing. We'd have a lot less high-level waste if we reprocessed, as most of the world is doing.
-- It's a great life...once you weaken. --author James Hogan
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Larry Jaques wrote: ...

...
Actually, there's very little commercial nuclear fuel being reprocessed anywhere at the moment anywhere in the world not just the US.
The difference is it is virtually all economics elsewhere while it's the remnants of the Carter edict against it in the US (although it's highly likely it would have followed the path of the rest of the world as not continuing even if started owing to economics here as well).
There really wouldn't be any significant less HLW except in that it might consume less physical volume as most of the highly radioactive components are the byproducts not the retrieved fuel.
The prime reason against it any time _real_soon_now_ is the volume of HEU available to be blended down from the agreement w/ Russia on dismantling a sizable fraction of their warheads and returning the HEU to the US as LEU. With the stagnant demand for commercial fuel over the last 40 years owing to no growth in installed capacity and this already processed material there's actually considerable disincentive to reprocess spent fuel at the present.
One use that's never been made use of in any extent is the spent fuel waste heat that is fairly significant for a while after discharge. Like other sources of lower-grade energy, it's never been sufficiently cost-effective to bother with even though there may be as much as 10% of full power output in a spent fuel bundle at discharge which for a typical PWR would be about 500 kW/bundle initially. If had a third-reactor discharge per fuel cycle that would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 MWt. That could be quite a lot of process or space heating.
--
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If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought, jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil companies had some clout in congress.
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On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:

Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
:-D
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Sooo, "O Wise One™" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and toasty? Huh? Huh?
<G>
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On 2/13/2010 11:44 AM, Robatoy wrote:

Probably some non-threatening kook who's beginning to think that the weather at Gitmo-By-The-Sea can't be all /that/ bad...
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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wrote:

Hurricanes?
Mark
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Robatoy wrote:

And, of course, even if the energy fuel source itself is free, the accoutrements required to utilize it aren't...
--
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On 2/13/2010 12:45 PM, dpb wrote:

There is that aspect. OTOH, folks don't seem to much value nor draw satisfaction from that which comes their way without cost.
From the production standpoint, the effort to produce such devices for people who didn't value them and who derived no satisfaction from using them, would rather quickly become pointless.
Still, one can bone up on math and physics, delve into fluid dynamics and heat transfer, refresh the hazy thermodynics memories, and then proceed more or less directly to a design of ones own. At that point all that's needed is to get the right materials into an appropriately equipped shop and do the assembly. If you happen to have all the right stuff, I suppose it /could/ be free...
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm not saying it isn't nor can't be valuable...and in the right circumstances may even have a positive payback over some time frame.

For some definition of free I suppose... :)
The "stuff" will have had to come from _somewhere_ ... and we all know what shops are: merely alternatives or substitutes for the boat or other endless resource sink. :)
There's still no free lunch (unfortunately).
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On 2/13/2010 3:44 PM, dpb wrote:

That was my conclusion, too. When I took a really close look, I noticed some "low hanging fruit" that offered remarkably short (2 to 3 year) payback periods. One of these, of course, is the passive solar heating panel - but there's still a fair amount of fruit on those low branches.
The big surprise for me (and for a lot of others) is that the best of the low-hanging fruit is simple, almost primitively simple, in operation but requires fairly high levels of understanding in multiple disciplines to design. I happened to be "blessed" with a whole team of patient mentors who helped me learn what I needed and steered me away from blind alleys.
Positive payback is a term worth thinking about - a lot. Direct financial payback, of course, is always satisfying - but payback can take many forms, and it's possible to aim for multiple paybacks (they're not necessarily mutually exclusive) and so /along with/ financial payback it may be possible to also have social and environmental paybacks.
I was updating the web page in my sig last week (feeling pleased that those panels had already paid for themselves) when it occurred to me to do another calculation: over the life of those panels, even if there is _no_ change to the price of propane, the savings they produce will exceed the cost of the building in which they're installed!
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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"Morris Dovey" wrote

I don't care how math challenged you are, those are impressive numbers!
Especially considering that this was not done in a southern state.
Besides, the southern states are all buried under snow right now! :)
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Also 'payback' is often misunderstood. In many cases, the outlay, per month, to supply heat to a shop can stay the same, but the money changes direction. Instead of sending your money to a energy supplier, you now pay it to support an investment. The tax structure changes as well. If I, as an individual, lend my business money to buy heating equipment, I get some tax advantages and incentives as well.
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On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy

5 grand worth of imported (from DeSoto, Iowa) solar panels, maybe?
-- It's a great life...once you weaken. --author James Hogan
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On 2/15/2010 2:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Don't I wish! Reduce that by half - twice - to get in the ballpark. :)
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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