O/T: "Drill Baby Drill"

Page 4 of 15  
On 05/03/2010 05:26 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Arguably, the blowout preventer should have been able to survive the loss of the rig.
Unless the blowout preventer itself was blown up by a bomb, it should have been designed to fail safe.
Chris
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On 5/3/2010 12:55 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:

"When a failsafe system fails, it fails by failing to fail safe." :)
from "Systemantics" by John Gall
see #27 at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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On 05/03/2010 12:39 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:

True enough...but I still think it should have been able to handle the loss of the rig above.
Chris
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On 5/3/2010 3:14 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:

What makes you think it wasn't designed to do so? The point you seem to be missing is that the blowout preventer did not work the way it was supposed to work, and while one can speculate forever about the reason, we won't _know_ the reason until they get the well closed off and recover the non-functional preventer.
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Chris Friesen wrote:

Perhaps the BOP was not "self aware" and depended upon instructions from the surface?
If so, maybe the instructions never got to the BOP.
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On 05/03/2010 02:03 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Conceivable, but that would be a pretty crappy design for a failsafe. It should have a deadman switch such that if it gets no handshake from the surface it shuts the valve.
Chris
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Probably did, but that does not mean it will work. Watch "Seconds from Disaster" on the Nat Geo channel and they will give you examples of how fail safe situations can fail.
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One report I heard today is that the function of the BOP -- which staunchs the flow by crushing the pipe -- was blocked by drill pieces inside the pipe.
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On 05/03/2010 05:26 PM, Steve wrote:

So the BOP only works once the well is drilled and the drill string is removed? That's quite the time window for catastrophic failure.
Chris
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Chris Friesen wrote:

Sometimes you don't have to remove the drill string.
Spindletop blew 1,139 feet of pipe right out of the well.
People screaming "Run for your lives!" and "Chicken Licken was right!" A sight to behold.
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On 5/2/2010 9:00 PM, Steve wrote:

So why don't you apply for a job showing these people you consider to be incompetent how it's done?
Engineering is always trivially easy to people who don't actually have to do it.
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Listen, butthead -- I didn't say I had answers, but I did say the talent charged with having the answers failed. So, yes, my summation is easy, but not particularly trivial.
If you've got the engineering savvy, use it.
Otherwise, you're trivial, and so is your challenge.
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On 5/3/2010 7:30 PM, Steve wrote:

I've got enough engineering savvy to know that until we know what went wrong there't no point in trying to figure out how to fix it. And whether the designers "failed" depends on what went wrong--you can't ever anticipate _everything_ and there are some things that it's not possible to deal with in the design.

I'm not the one going on about how other people doing work that I don't understand have "failed".
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J. Clarke wrote:

I think in the future, the oil companies should consult with Rec.Woodworking before investing a few hundred billion on an oil platform... Or at least ask the Bammer and his gang how its done....
--
Jack
Redistribute My Work Ethic!!!
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Steve wrote:

But you don't know what went wrong. You don't even know what you don't know. The problem may have been an engineering failure, a human mistake, a terrorist attack, a rogue submarine, a freak wave, or even a previously-unknown monster from the deep.
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I am going with the terrorist making a freaky engineering mistake onboard a submarine whilst chasing a human monster.
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Or even a reaction from the giant asteroid that hit the region awhile ago. (ok, *quite* awhile) Or a deep sea vent bent the pipe. Or Pelosi and Reed hired the job done.
Max (whenever you all get thru "drilling" put the project together and let's move on)
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dpb wrote:

the "risk" when things go wrong. And if Murphy has taught us anything it's that things WILL go wrong.
When the actions of one small group of people can have a significant negative impact on the lives and the economies of at least three states, and a neighboring country, they better have a LOT of liability insurance and we're not talking about millions - but billions.
Would be interesting to see what Lloyds of London would want to provide such insurance. Folks that put themselves on the hook to pay for fixing things when they go wrong are probably much better at estimating the risk that are oils companies, or regulatory agencies - especially those gutted by "deregulation" (read "here's the hen house. Fox - keep an eye on the place")
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charlie b wrote:

The investors take the risk, reap the rewards and pay for the failures? What on earth are you talking about?

Well, they have no liability insurance, they are self insured. As for a small group of people, my guess is the number of people owning BP, including pension funds, mutual funds and individual investors would likely make that "small group" larger than you think.

Apparently more than the company was willing to risk.
--
Jack
Fight Socialism.... Buy a Ford!
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On 5/6/2010 9:32 AM, Jack Stein wrote:

That's not actually entirely true. Much like the banking fiasco, the corporation did take the risk and it did reap rewards BUT at least some of the downside is being layed off on the the public coffers. It costs a whole bunch of money to have the USCG and Navy and the other alphabet soup of agencies there to try and help. Moreover, I really doubt BP will end up footing the entire bill of what happens to that ecosystem. The damage will likely linger for years and the fishery will thus be impacted. Unless BP hires every person in the area who is affected, and pays them a comparable wage for the duration of the impact, someone *else* is picking up their tab in some degree.
I'm a free market guy - little or no regulation is fine with me. HOWEVER, when someone screws up, even unintentionally, they should be accountable for the consequences. If they cause harm criminally, negligently, or intentionally they should also pay punitive damages. This is as true for a corp as for an individual.
In actual fact, there is a government bailout underway there already, it's just far more subtle than TARP. Naturally (to use your nice turn of phrase) Ali Bama And The 40 Thieves running D.C. will use this as further opportunity to grow the state.
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