O/T: Amazing

[Lew Hodgett]

------------------------------------- Careful Scott, don't want to confuse those with preconceived views with facts.

Lew

[Doug Miller]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in news:b4b6a$4ff1ad15 $4b75eb81$ [e-mail]:

Guy in our church has a bumper sticker that says "He who dies with the most toys

-- DIES."

[Mike M]

Were from another era, I rattle their cages by usually telling them the change owed before the cash register. They never learned to do it in their head. I've held on to my slide ruler I'll be a genius if a major solar storm wipes out the computers. LOL

Mike M

[Just Wondering]

You could power a scientific hand calculator with a couple of lemons.

[Dave]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 01:37:40 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

toys -- DIES."

Better bumper sticker. "He who does with the most toys, wins, but he's DEAD ANYWAY!"

[Bruce]

On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 11:10:28 -0600, Larry Blanchard wrote (in article ):

I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember exactly where) that medicaid patients overwhelmingly use the ER as their primary doctor. Basically they can either wait a month to get an appointment or go to the ER and get seen the same day, all for the same few-dollar co-pay. The article mentioned that they are considering changing the program to limit non-emergency ER visits to 3 a year before they have to pay a larger co-pay.

If you had a medical issue and faced no extra financial burden between the choice of seeing a doctor now (ER) versus waiting a month what would you do? As for me, I have insurance and if I get a cold serious enough to warrent a doctor visit, I would have to wait several weeks to a month to see my primary or go to the ER and pay a $200 co-pay plus all the other costs.

A big advantage for medicaid over traditional insurance no?

-BR

[Bruce]

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:59:01 -0600, Han wrote (in article ):

I agree with an earlier poster that it is basically bookkeeping, we pay no matter what (more taxes or higher premiums). What really bugs me is calling all this crap 'insurance'. Insurance is coverage for unexpected events (i.e. flood insurance, auto comprehensive, etc.). No auto policy will cover oil changes and tune ups for free (like the assortment of no-copay things in the AHA). Auto insurance also won't cover (or at least charge a much higher premium) for drivers who have a terrible driving record. Also, can anyone name an auto insurance that will accept previous damage, i.e I'm uninsured and get into a wreck, then buy a policy and get the damages paid for)?

How about making health insurance more like auto insurance. I choose the coverage I want (I don't opt for the free birth control and breast reconstruction coverage, thank you), and I can shop around. Can anybody name a health insurance company with better customer service than an auto insurance company?

If the government wants to meddle, they can subsidize some of the routine stuff (mammograms, vaccines, etc.) directly to the doctors. In God we trust, all others pay cash.

-BR

[Han]

Just Wondering wrote in news:4ff24006$0$18651$ [e-mail]:

Nonsense. That what you refer to is communism, not socialism. A common, but really bad misconception.

Obamacare is one possible response to a malfunctioning healthcare insurance system. Any other system that would achieve equitable premiums and equitable risk stratification would be worth looking at. One (just one) of the problems in achieving equitable is that people would like to get something for nothing.

"I'm not sick now, why pay for health insurance I don't need?" Fine, but then institute a system where you would get penalized in person if you then do need it. And none of that I'll pay later stuff, or my family or friends will pay. Cash in advance of treatment, and fast.

There is somewhat of an analogy. In some areas, fire protection is by subscription. Sometimes, people with little means cannot afford $50/year (or whatever) to pay. Then, when their trailer catches fire, the fire truck comes and stands by to protect people next door who did pay, and watch the trailer burn out. I believe there was in instance where the firemen even refused to help out when immediate payment of arrears where offered. This type of story is why I think that the municipality should offer fire protection and bill through property taxes for the costs of keeping fire fighting equipment.

Fortunately, medical care that is really needed is provided prior to asking for payment. If there were really compulsory insurance as in some version of Obamacare, those payment problems disappear, and there is no need for collection agencies.

This is not communism, or socialism, but personal responsibility, if necessary enforced. It is similar to not allowing people to go naked across public streets.

[Han]

Bruce wrote in news: [e-mail]:

This is increasingly a problem for problems that appear minnor but can (sometimes) quickly becomereally serious. Relatives have solved this by going to walk-in doctors' offices. Look in the phonebook (or your favorite search engine) for "urgent care clinic". Obviously, you'll have more luck in urbanized environs.

[Han]

basilisk wrote in news:rnw3obj9kvf3.1rqa6j694ko2n$. [e-mail]:

Sorry to hear about your wife passing. These aren't easy things and times, but I think that if prospects for a good life are diminishing, thought needds to be given to what you call comfort care - a good phrase, because comfort is what's needed for all concerned. Good thoughts going your way ...

[Han]

Bruce wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I think you hit the nail on the head. The copays are comparable to paying for the oil change, while car or health insurance is for accidents. However, it easily gets more complicated. Now when you buy a car, there sometimes is free maintenance for x months. That would be comparable to free checkups, inoculations, and, yes, free birth control (getting an unplanned baby is much more expensive for parents and society than a few free pills).

I have also said that compulsory health insurance should be some form of basic coverage, and plans to add other stuff to be covered should be standardized and available. Seems some of that exists for Medicare plans and the much ballyhooed supplementals. If all that can be standardized across the country, then things become much more easily comparable.

[krw]

Set the co-pay for the ER at some hundreds of dollars. If it's really an emergency, you'll pay it.

That's a problem. The charges for an ER visit should be orders of magnitude higher than a doctor's visit. Inbetween the two are the "Urgent Care" facilities, which have costs on the order of a doctor's office.

Advantage?

[Larry Blanchard]

Sorry to hear of your wife's death. But your way makes a lot more sense than having someone spend their last days being wheeled from one painful treatment to another.

[Larry Blanchard]

I've suggested all along to gradually expand Medicare till it covers everyone. But there wasn't a chance in hell of getting that past all the special interests and through congress.

[Scott Lurndal]

UHC, Aetna, Blue Shield, et. al. etc. u.s.w.

[Han]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in news:5f97d$4ff33b38$4b75eb81$ [e-mail]:

Seems that is what people who do not have (for whatever reason) insurance are saying. It's too expensive, I'm betting I won't get sick. And I am NOT now saying this is an employee of a big corporation, but perhaps the half-time employee who is not eligible for benefits.

Please reconsider what you just stated. Many have been put in a position that makes them ineligible for health insurance (the costs of benefits is a consideration in hiring part-time rather than full-time employees). So, you are told (as a colleague was), sorry Mike we can't afford to pay you full-time anymore, so please consider doing the same work but getting only half the money, and by the way, no benefits. The only way to get health insurance then is via COBRA, at $1000/mo or so. You'll have to think - if I don't pay, I may never get coverage again, because then I'll have some pre-existing condition.

You are denying the usefulness of insurance? Then it is an installment tax, either pay in full each time you get sick, or pay the weekly installments according to what the actuaries say you'll eventually pay.

Sorry, I was off, it was $75. Just google for this: "fire truck stands by as trailer burns" The first link is

I agree. Just plain stupid. But it's indeed a big country.

Sorry, Mike. Here in NJ (07410) the fire equipment is paid for by the municipality, while the firemen are volunteers. I don't know how their training and personal equipment is paid, but there are fundraisers almost year round. Such as this:

[krw]

Do you really believe that "didn't" is the same as "can't afford to"? $75 per

*year*? GMAFB

[krw]

AARP

[Larry Blanchard]

Just about anyone who makes a living from exorbitantly priced supplies, pills, procedures, insurance policies, etc.. And let us never forget the ambulance chasers and all the hospitals being converted from non-profit to for-profit.

[Han]

" [e-mail]" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that a poor family didn't have the $75 to pay the fee when it became due, and then forgot to put it on a priority list to pay. I'm NOT saying these people were smart, but perhaos they did outsmart themselves.