O/T: Amazing

[Lew Hodgett]

Today's vote by the SCOTUS was amazing.

Now let the fun and games begin.

Lew

[Just Wondering]

The reason many people don't already have insurance is that they can't afford it. Obamacare doesn't change that. You can't legislate blood from a turnip.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Roberts brought up the "tax" or penalty of 1% if you have no insurance. If you are in the higher income bracket, you probably have coverage either through your employer or you can afford it.

On the lower end, you have to make a big decision. If you are trying to raise a family on $30k, you can either pay a penalty of $300 or you can buy insurance for maybe $8000 to $12,000.

[Leon]

And those that can't afford that and or the illegals will still pay nothing resulting in our government going farther into dept. All that at a cost to buy votes form the growing population of the ignorant.

[Sonny]

The fed govt will pick up the tab for the first 5 yrs, then the burden of cost will be placed on the states, which most are already budget crunching. Managing the system will become a nightmare, I predict, and no one knows what the insurance companies have in store to add to the confusion (and mismanagement?).

Sonny

[Swingman]

It's entirely plausible that Roberts may have done more future damage to the liberal's causes than they realize at the moment ... they may have well been Marbury'ed ...

[Keith Nuttle]

With the democrats proudly stating that obama is the first president in the last 100 years to place a TAX DIRECTLY ON the LOWEST INCOME PORTION of our population, if they don't buy insurance, this should be an interesting election year.

The obamacare will increase the cost of medical care. The most obvious is the 2.3% increase on medical devices. For those of you who have not read the Federal Register's FDA's GMPs, medical devices are everything associated with the practice of medicine. Everything from band aids to MRI machines. All of the software in every computer used in the monitoring of patients is a medical device. All of the items that the doctor uses when you visit his office or the nurse uses when you visit the clinic. All of the things that a person uses as part of the medicines they use at home, such as the instruments used to monitor sugar, AND the strips used in these machines.

The obamacare create a second government agency, Patient-centered outcomes research, to compete with the current FDA. All of the things it is suppose to be responsible for is currently part of the FDA's approval and review of medical devices and drugs. So now we have to government agencies controlling the medical industry, each with their own paper work and regulations that will add to the cost of the medicine you take.

The cost of all of the new reporting system that are being imposed on the medical industry will also add to the cost.

It is my understand that the basic $100/month medical insurance cost deducted from your social security will go up to over 300 dollars per month under obamacare. Private insurance will either go up or the coverage will be reduced. That is a tripling of your direct medical expenses.

You state taxes will go up as obamacare will try to force the states to expand the money that obamacare says they should spend. Many of the things that the obamacare is placing on the states is not funded by the Federal government and the money will come from the state and local budgets.

We will look back and think the doubling of the national debit since the social democrats took control of Congress in 2006 as the good old days, when the national debit balloons to 20 to 50 trillion dollar range and your state and local government go bankrupt to cover the cost of obamacare.

NOW TELL ME HOW OBAMA CARE WILL REDUCE COST.

[Leon]

Yeah, LOL, it is for sure designated as a tax now, one that even the Obama voters will have to pay, not just the wealthy. BTY if you make more than $40k you are considered wealthy by the Obominationists.

[G. Ross]

What was amazing at the start was the premise that you could furnish health care for more people for less money. Never made sense, but they said it with a straight face.

[Larry Jaques]

No, those who can't afford it don't get coverage, they only get a waiver.

But Obamacare adds 20,000 new IRS agents and 140 new gov't agencies and Crom knows what else. Nobody has read the entire 2,471+ pages yet, I don't think. It's 1,147,271 words long.

-- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln

[Larry Jaques]

Obamacare may be the blunt instrument which causes the American masses to finally come to Critical Mass. Stock water, food, supplies, and ammo, boys and girls.

-- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln

[Larry Jaques]

I believe their theory is that all of us who rarely use doctors will be paying for those who do.

-- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln

[tiredofspam]

Exactly, and an interview with an insurance CEO said that the middle aged would pay higher rates to cover the older people who can't afford the higher rates.

So double whammy.

We can't afford nati> >> Today's vote by the SCOTUS was amazing.

[Tim Daneliuk]

liberal's causes than they realize at the moment ... they may have well been Marbury'ed ...

Roberts did three things:

- He told the people and the legislature to decide what's good law and not ask SCOTUS to make that decision - he umpired and didn't play the game.

- He showed judicial independence and thereby took away Obama's ability to whine about how the courts are interfering with his reign.

- To your point - he stomped on the brakes to prevent the Congress from its current behavior of using the Commerce Clause to justify every bit of legislative overreach and chicanery. The Commerce Clause is so abused as to make the limits on Federal power irrelevant. That came to a grinding halt yesterday.

My only beef with the whole thing is that Roberts could have and should have thrown out the individual mandate because it is flatly wrong.

The most important thing that happened yesterday is that this ignited the fires and people will now be galvanized to replace this administration.

[Swingman]

Let's just hope that it doesn't take as long as Marbury vs Madison for the cows to come home.

[krw]

An interesting point was made on one of the local channels by one of the congresscritters today. Since Obamacare is now, by definition, a tax, it only takes a simple majority at conference (and the President's signature) to repeal it. A super-majority in the Senate isn't required for cloture.

[Keith Nuttle]

Our financial adviser told us a couple of years ago that financial planning should include a plot of land, a garden, some chickens and a shotgun to defend it. I think he was joking at the time he told us that but it is becoming less of a joke.

[Swingman]

Problem is, the plot of land is subject to punishing property taxes; Monsanto has a lock on the seeds for your garden; your HOA/Municipality won't allow you to raise chickens; and your shotgun is under tremendous pressure to be confiscated.

[tiredofspam]

The financial planner was right. Swingman is right.

There's > >>> >>>

[Han]

Larry Jaques wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I believe that compulsory healthcare insurance is a good thing. Until now, if your insurance or lack of it does not cover a needed expense, you are at the mercy of the doctor or other healthcare provider. Of course you could negotiate to get what you need for less than half of the "charge", and sometimes you might be successful, but usually you'd need to pay twice or more of what the insurance company pays for the same treatment. Now everyone pays the same in healthcare insurance, and the insurance companies negotiate with the providers. We "only" need databases to find out actual amounts paid for each condition to decide where a certain treatment is most economical (and best, of course).

At the moment, the cost of care often includes a surcharge to help pay for indigent caren (in NY City, there is a 8.5% or so surcharge that insurance covers, but that deals with the cost of under and uninsured).

There wil be no more COBRA where it would cost $1000 plus/month to get insurance if your hours were reduced to the extent that you don't have benefits anymore, or get laid off. Skip on the insurance for a while, and then you have a pre-existing condition, and no more insurance, period.

Of course, I would think that a nationwide single payor insurance system would cut out most of the duplications in administering insurance, but it would also cut what little competition there is left, so it is doubtful which is worse. I am all in favor of good wages for healthcare personnel, but currently much of the costs are associated with needless bureaucracy, duplicating "state of the art" care that doesn't help more than regular exercise, and I could go on. Let's focus on that, and on the question how much end of life care should cost, in comparison to the quality of life. I know I tread perhaps on sensitive toes, and I would like to submit that at that time, insurance and treatment choices should be made. I have a living will etc set up. Do you? In the absence of proper instructions, the doctors and hospitals will clean you out.