no more Jet for me

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On 3/9/15, 1:03 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

They haven't been as fast to adopt refinements. Mini Max has stayed with the industrial market, only making one (if I recall correctly) model that has pushed into the "pro-sumer" market. Laguna has gone full steam into that market and competition has force them to innovate. Don't read me wrong, MM still makes great stuff, but for my needs (the bottom end of the industrial market), The Lagunas now have an edge with accessories and features. I needed a saw with at least 16" wheels, the ability for big resaw capacity, and ability to tension wide blades. At the time, MM was one of the few producing an affordable saw, everything at lower price points was still being made with the cast iron columns vs, the MM steel box beams. It wasn't long after that other mfgs started to make steel box beam saws (Jet comes to mind). Evolution in action. I actually wish I had bought the 18" since the 16" was a bit small to properly run the carbide blades without eventual fatigue cracking of the blade metal (the blades were thicker and the smaller radius of the wheels became a factor. I believe newer carbide blades are now available with thinner blade stock so I am probably ok running one on a 16", but my needs have changed a bit and the standard resaw blades work perfectly (without having to pay the exorbitant prices for carbide)
Check out the web sites. The MM still looks much like mine, after more than a decade. Improvements are a better table tilt (mine is rock solid, but very user unfriendly), and improved guides. Power and capacity are also a bit better. Laguna has many more options available.
Given more time and demand, I'm sure MM will re-design their stuff and be on top again. One big draw to MM at the time was superb customer service. The initial order and delivery was flawless. Based on reports I read, that has slipped a bit (although I have never had anything break where I required four star service). Laguna had spotty service at the time I ordered and when I couldn't get basic questions answered, I bought the MM and never looked back.
The big shocker to me however is the prices (more than 2x what I paid)
-BR

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On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 09:57:53 -0600

Never had heard of felder or hammer they are together now and the products look similar

Laguna sells direct too A while ago I recall seeing laguna bandsaws on amazon but don't recall who the seller was. Might have been rockler

That's a lot of bandsaw
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Jeez, Are you relatively new to wood working equipment? :-). I think the first time I heard of those two brands was back in the late 70's or early 80's. I think they are similar like Grizzly and Shop Fox and or some of Jet andPowermatic products.

When I bought about 8 years ago you still had to buy direct from Laguna. I would say that if you buy direct you might get a few more perks and or blades thrown in. Also if you get on Laguna's email list they will let you know when tools go on sale or have a demo sale.

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On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 17:03:10 -0500

how hard was/is felder and hammer stuff marketed some companies get out there better than others I guess I'm a marketing victim
the felder hammer stuff looks well made but marketing/distribution has to get better to get in front of people

good to know am on the list but not ready to buy
I wonder how their moving sale went?
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On 3/10/2015 10:50 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

In the older days they were at most the woodworking shows. Kiti, Laguna, Minimax, Felder, Hammer... etc
Later on they dropped off of the Houston shows but became more prominent in the commercial trades magazines and regular ww magazines. Laguna is not new but relative new compared to most of the brands that I have mentioned. The Owner of Laguna Is from the northern Europe area and came to live in California. He loved surfing at Laguna beach and apparently named the company accordingly. He wanted to introduce European machines to the USA lower end consumers, not just at comercial applications.

Well they probably would do better if they offered lowered quality in different categories. Laguna was not really well known to the general public until they started offering through retailers and offering Asian versions.

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On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 14:44:49 -0500

I went to exactly 1 woodworking show and subscribed to exactly 0 woodworking magazines the show was ok, a guy was scared and turning a 5 foot bowl maybe from the club local to the venue and picked the short straw or better yet came up with the idea and volunteered simultaneously
and now you mention kiti another I haven't heard of.

I make choices quickly some times and not others. I think jet get out there in front of people

Seems to have been a good idea.

laguna has some high-end CNC stuff and I don't even remember how I heard about laguna, may have been amazon
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On 3/10/2015 8:13 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

Well there you have it. ;~) You typically don't see the upper end commercial grade machines in the typical ww store, there you mostly see consumer grade.

That one is scarce. I don't recall seeing that one in the last 30 or so years.
FWIW I haven't seen any of the heavy duty machines at the Houston WW shows in years. "The WoodWorking Shows" tour has sucked for the past 5~6 years. They pissed off most of the vendors when they moved from the centrally located Houston location, near the Astrodome, to the out laying small towns of Katy and Conroe. I have probably gone to my last show unless they go back to Houston. I swear the last show was held in a love stock shelter. 10 Plus years ago every brand you could think of was well represented.

Laguna absolutely has high end stuff. On their web site you look under the Industrial tab for the machines that are going to out last you. Under the Dealer Exclusive tab there are decent tools but on par with all the brands manufactured in Asia. Dealer exclusive is more geared towards the first time buyer of a particular type machine. Industrial is geared toward those that are tired of replacing machines.
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On 3/10/15, 9:50 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

As with MM/Laguna at the time, they were industrial machines and were sold to industry. Finding them was pretty much word of mouth. Now that they have entered the fray of the lower end markets, advertising is much more critical.
-BR

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"Leon" wrote in message wrote: > Never had heard of felder or hammer

Much of the Felder and Hammer stuff I've seen was geared more towards commercial shops... European designs, big stuff, relatively expensive. Not that a well heeled hobbyist with lots of space wouldn't be interested... ;~) I like their sliding table saws, the big jointer/planners, and shapers. If I hit a big lottery of some sort I could see having a big shop full of the stuff.... ;~)
The first time I saw Felder tools in person Frank Klausz was manning the booth and playing with a jointer/planner...
John
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On 3/10/2015 11:32 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

It is a real treat to see the innovation and quality of the Euro machines. But they are geared to the committed and commercial applications. I was real close to going with the Laguna TSS with scoring blade. My Jet cabinet saw was only 13 years old but my wife indicated that she would not mind me upgrading to the Industrial SawStop after watching me perform an operation that made her a bit concerned. The Laguna would have offered a lot of extra perks but would have been about $1000 more expensive equally equipped. In the end the safety of the SawStop trumped the Laguna along with a familiar American style operational set up.
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"Leon" wrote in message

If I move to a more southern state I may sell of the stuff I have, a Jet cabinet saw for one, and buy all new stuff... That is a thought I've had for the the past couple of years and those thoughts also include going Euro... I like things like the riving knives and sliding tables, the wide jointer/planer combo machines, Euro style bandsaws...
My needs have changed over time and having a large jointer and a stationary thickness planer doesn't make as much sense as it once did. This as I'm no longer trying to joint boards 12'+ long for architectural purposes that led me to move up to the big jointer in the first place. Now, having a wide jointer combined with an equal sized planer makes sense for furniture type projects.
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On 3/10/2015 9:23 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

FWIW most all the new table saws now have riving knives. The one on my SawStop is very well thought out. Remove the insert, lift the riving knife/guard lock lever and lift out. Some brands require tools and that would be a royal PIA. Also Sawstop has recently introduced a sliding table that fits most everything that they make IIRC. BUT I still admire the Laguna TS and TSS series table saws. They are beasts. My top end SawStop is 700lbs but the Laguna TS is 970lbs. And I will never have to replace my Laguna BS.

I sell the vast majority of the work that I do and have also steered away from using a joiner, I sold mine that I seldom used a few years ago. I pretty much buy S4S lumber now as its price, compared to S2S, is not that much more considering the time savings and knowing exactly how much I can expect to get out of a standard sized board. If I buy for me I will consider S2S and planing it down to 3/4.
I do have a 22/44 drum sander that I use a lot. A lot of my furniture uses 1/4" thick wood for trim. I resaw 3/4" stock on the BS and then bring to final thickness with the sander. I am a little leery about using a 15" stationary planer for taking stock down to that thickness given it has rollers on the bed.
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On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 12:08:07 -0700, Electric Comet

Laguna sells direct through Amazon. I've been looking. ;-)

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On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 09:13:31 -0800, Electric Comet

I'm still trying to decide between the Laguna 14SUV and a Rikon 10-351. It won't be soon, though.

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On 2/25/2015 8:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

If you can test drive each start saving for the Laguna.
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wrote:

The difference is only a couple of hundred bucks. The smaller Lagunas aren't the same as the spaghetti saws, either. Laguna has a horrible reputation for service and build quality on the lower end. If Laguna's reputation weren't in the toilet, I wouldn't consider the Rikon.
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"Electric Comet" wrote in message

I've owned 8 Jet stationary tools and still have 5 of them... 3 were upgraded to larger machines. They've all been good, serviceable, and reliable machines. The only real problem I had was the magnetic switch on the cabinet saw failed after about 8 years--cleaning it didn't help. The other things were all consumables or maintenance items (e.g., blades, bandsaw tire). I'd buy Jet again.
John
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The way this thread has wandered off topic makes it seem like Jet airplanes were the original topic! LOL
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On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:26:16 -0500

the topic's about jet tool's inferior designs and how they've not earned any more money from me due those inferior designs
wandering off topic's not possible it's only possible for the reader to not follow the topic I can understand how you might have gotten confused
usenet is about allowing topics to go fractal and not about staying on topic
any topic that comes up is usually related to the main one even in miniscule ways sometimes
.
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"Electric Comet" wrote in message wrote: >> The way this thread has wandered off topic >wandering off topic's not possible it's only possible

I've been around here for 25+ years... threads under this topic have definitely drifted way off topic into the world of transportation vehicles, engines, etc...
RE Jet tools, as I posted previously, I've got a bunch of them and they all have performed well. I do however recognize maintenance and consumable items on tools and I know when I personally screwed something up... the tools themselves have proven reliable, have met my performance expectations and have let me perform well... I've got a box full of woodworking ribbons including a "best of show" to show for it.
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