They haven't been as fast to adopt refinements. Mini Max has stayed with
the industrial market, only making one (if I recall correctly) model
that has pushed into the "pro-sumer" market. Laguna has gone full steam
into that market and competition has force them to innovate.
Don't read me wrong, MM still makes great stuff, but for my needs (the
bottom end of the industrial market), The Lagunas now have an edge with
accessories and features.
I needed a saw with at least 16" wheels, the ability for big resaw
capacity, and ability to tension wide blades. At the time, MM was one of
the few producing an affordable saw, everything at lower price points
was still being made with the cast iron columns vs, the MM steel box
beams. It wasn't long after that other mfgs started to make steel box
beam saws (Jet comes to mind). Evolution in action. I actually wish I
had bought the 18" since the 16" was a bit small to properly run the
carbide blades without eventual fatigue cracking of the blade metal (the
blades were thicker and the smaller radius of the wheels became a
factor. I believe newer carbide blades are now available with thinner
blade stock so I am probably ok running one on a 16", but my needs have
changed a bit and the standard resaw blades work perfectly (without
having to pay the exorbitant prices for carbide)
Check out the web sites. The MM still looks much like mine, after more
than a decade. Improvements are a better table tilt (mine is rock solid,
but very user unfriendly), and improved guides. Power and capacity are
also a bit better. Laguna has many more options available.
Given more time and demand, I'm sure MM will re-design their stuff and
be on top again. One big draw to MM at the time was superb customer
service. The initial order and delivery was flawless. Based on reports I
read, that has slipped a bit (although I have never had anything break
where I required four star service). Laguna had spotty service at the
time I ordered and when I couldn't get basic questions answered, I
bought the MM and never looked back.
The big shocker to me however is the prices (more than 2x what I paid)
Jeez, Are you relatively new to wood working equipment? :-). I think
the first time I heard of those two brands was back in the late 70's or
early 80's. I think they are similar like Grizzly and Shop Fox and or
some of Jet andPowermatic products.
When I bought about 8 years ago you still had to buy direct from Laguna.
I would say that if you buy direct you might get a few more perks and or
blades thrown in. Also if you get on Laguna's email list they will let
you know when tools go on sale or have a demo sale.
how hard was/is felder and hammer stuff marketed
some companies get out there better than others
I guess I'm a marketing victim
the felder hammer stuff looks well made but marketing/distribution
has to get better to get in front of people
good to know
am on the list but not ready to buy
I wonder how their moving sale went?
In the older days they were at most the woodworking shows. Kiti,
Laguna, Minimax, Felder, Hammer... etc
Later on they dropped off of the Houston shows but became more prominent
in the commercial trades magazines and regular ww magazines. Laguna is
not new but relative new compared to most of the brands that I have
mentioned. The Owner of Laguna Is from the northern Europe area and
came to live in California. He loved surfing at Laguna beach and
apparently named the company accordingly. He wanted to introduce
European machines to the USA lower end consumers, not just at comercial
Well they probably would do better if they offered lowered quality in
different categories. Laguna was not really well known to the general
public until they started offering through retailers and offering Asian
I went to exactly 1 woodworking show and subscribed to exactly 0
the show was ok, a guy was scared and turning a 5 foot bowl
maybe from the club local to the venue and picked the short straw
or better yet came up with the idea and volunteered simultaneously
and now you mention kiti another I haven't heard of.
I make choices quickly some times and not others. I think jet
get out there in front of people
Seems to have been a good idea.
laguna has some high-end CNC stuff and I don't even remember how I
heard about laguna, may have been amazon
Well there you have it. ;~) You typically don't see the upper end
commercial grade machines in the typical ww store, there you mostly see
That one is scarce. I don't recall seeing that one in the last 30 or so
FWIW I haven't seen any of the heavy duty machines at the Houston WW
shows in years. "The WoodWorking Shows" tour has sucked for the past
5~6 years. They pissed off most of the vendors when they moved from the
centrally located Houston location, near the Astrodome, to the out
laying small towns of Katy and Conroe. I have probably gone to my last
show unless they go back to Houston. I swear the last show was held in
a love stock shelter. 10 Plus years ago every brand you could think of
was well represented.
Laguna absolutely has high end stuff. On their web site you look under
the Industrial tab for the machines that are going to out last you.
Under the Dealer Exclusive tab there are decent tools but on par with
all the brands manufactured in Asia. Dealer exclusive is more geared
towards the first time buyer of a particular type machine. Industrial
is geared toward those that are tired of replacing machines.
As with MM/Laguna at the time, they were industrial machines and were
sold to industry. Finding them was pretty much word of mouth. Now that
they have entered the fray of the lower end markets, advertising is much
Much of the Felder and Hammer stuff I've seen was geared more towards
commercial shops... European designs, big stuff, relatively expensive. Not
that a well heeled hobbyist with lots of space wouldn't be interested... ;~)
I like their sliding table saws, the big jointer/planners, and shapers. If I
hit a big lottery of some sort I could see having a big shop full of the
The first time I saw Felder tools in person Frank Klausz was manning the
booth and playing with a jointer/planner...
It is a real treat to see the innovation and quality of the Euro
machines. But they are geared to the committed and commercial
applications. I was real close to going with the Laguna TSS with
scoring blade. My Jet cabinet saw was only 13 years old but my wife
indicated that she would not mind me upgrading to the Industrial SawStop
after watching me perform an operation that made her a bit concerned.
The Laguna would have offered a lot of extra perks but would have been
about $1000 more expensive equally equipped. In the end the safety of
the SawStop trumped the Laguna along with a familiar American style
operational set up.
If I move to a more southern state I may sell of the stuff I have, a Jet
cabinet saw for one, and buy all new stuff... That is a thought I've had for
the the past couple of years and those thoughts also include going Euro... I
like things like the riving knives and sliding tables, the wide
jointer/planer combo machines, Euro style bandsaws...
My needs have changed over time and having a large jointer and a stationary
thickness planer doesn't make as much sense as it once did. This as I'm no
longer trying to joint boards 12'+ long for architectural purposes that led
me to move up to the big jointer in the first place. Now, having a wide
jointer combined with an equal sized planer makes sense for furniture type
FWIW most all the new table saws now have riving knives. The one on my
SawStop is very well thought out. Remove the insert, lift the riving
knife/guard lock lever and lift out. Some brands require tools and that
would be a royal PIA. Also Sawstop has recently introduced a sliding
table that fits most everything that they make IIRC.
BUT I still admire the Laguna TS and TSS series table saws. They are
beasts. My top end SawStop is 700lbs but the Laguna TS is 970lbs.
And I will never have to replace my Laguna BS.
I sell the vast majority of the work that I do and have also steered
away from using a joiner, I sold mine that I seldom used a few years
ago. I pretty much buy S4S lumber now as its price, compared to S2S, is
not that much more considering the time savings and knowing exactly how
much I can expect to get out of a standard sized board. If I buy for me
I will consider S2S and planing it down to 3/4.
I do have a 22/44 drum sander that I use a lot. A lot of my furniture
uses 1/4" thick wood for trim. I resaw 3/4" stock on the BS and then
bring to final thickness with the sander. I am a little leery about
using a 15" stationary planer for taking stock down to that thickness
given it has rollers on the bed.
The difference is only a couple of hundred bucks. The smaller Lagunas
aren't the same as the spaghetti saws, either. Laguna has a horrible
reputation for service and build quality on the lower end. If
Laguna's reputation weren't in the toilet, I wouldn't consider the
I've owned 8 Jet stationary tools and still have 5 of them... 3 were
upgraded to larger machines. They've all been good, serviceable, and
reliable machines. The only real problem I had was the magnetic switch on
the cabinet saw failed after about 8 years--cleaning it didn't help. The
other things were all consumables or maintenance items (e.g., blades,
bandsaw tire). I'd buy Jet again.
the topic's about jet tool's inferior designs and how they've not
earned any more money from me due those inferior designs
wandering off topic's not possible it's only possible
for the reader to not follow the topic
I can understand how you might have gotten confused
usenet is about allowing topics to go fractal and not about
staying on topic
any topic that comes up is usually related to the main one
even in miniscule ways sometimes
I've been around here for 25+ years... threads under this topic have
definitely drifted way off topic into the world of transportation vehicles,
RE Jet tools, as I posted previously, I've got a bunch of them and they all
have performed well. I do however recognize maintenance and consumable items
on tools and I know when I personally screwed something up... the tools
themselves have proven reliable, have met my performance expectations and
have let me perform well... I've got a box full of woodworking ribbons
including a "best of show" to show for it.
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