no more Jet for me

[Electric Comet]

a piece on my table saw broke and I decided that I will not spend money on Jet tools again. Too many little things have broken on the two shop tools I have that are made by Jet.

I've made a replacement piece for the latest breakage from wood and so far it seems to be fine the original part is broken into about 10 pieces a crappy cast aluminum part which was exactly the wrong material for this application

I can't do that for the other stuff and have just had to fudge it

for example the quick-adjust handle on the lathe tool rest is stripped. the handle is spring loaded so you can pull it out, rotate it then tighten/loosen in a better position. well that crappy aluminum was a really bad choice as it stripped out and I did not abuse this handle I was always careful to pull it all the way out then rotate and made sure it was seated again then tighten/loosen

I bought a plastic knob and that works ok, but not as much leverage as the original handle

also the nut on the lathe tool rest that attaches under the bedway was a flattened nut with a nylon ring. the nylon gave way and the tool rest could not be adequately tightened to the bedway replaced it with a plain old nut and so far so good

all these little things add up to sour me on Jet they may have reduced the cost to pass on the savings to me but now i lose and they lose

a lose-lose situation or mutually assured disappointment

[Leon]

I can understand your frustration and is the primary reason I buy better quality tools. But having said that I own/have owned 5 Jet woodworking machines. They are by far a better quality of any Delta tools that I have purchased. Anyway things wear out and a few dollars for a replacement or better replacement part seems to be better than a premium price for a competitive brand.

[John Grossbohlin]

I've owned 8 Jet stationary tools and still have 5 of them... 3 were upgraded to larger machines. They've all been good, serviceable, and reliable machines. The only real problem I had was the magnetic switch on the cabinet saw failed after about 8 years--cleaning it didn't help. The other things were all consumables or maintenance items (e.g., blades, bandsaw tire). I'd buy Jet again.

John

[krw]

I like my Unisaur and Delta 18-300 drill press better than anything equivalent from Jet. I can't think of any other Delta tools I'd have, though.

[Leon]

I considered a Unisaw when buying my first cabinet saw in 1999. At that time there was a lot of comments about new Unisaws having broken trunnions. The Delta explanation was that the shippers were at fault. While this may have been true no other manufacturers were having issues. IIRC some one like Charlie Self had found out one way or another that the torquing was not correct during assembly, IIRC. Anyway I thought that the complaints/issues were an anomaly until I visited my local supplier, 2 blocks from home, and learned that their show room floor saw had a broken trunnion. That prompted me to buy the Jet cabinet saw. I owned that saw until 2013, when I replaced it with the SawStop, and sold the saw for what I paid for the saw itself. I threw in the HTC out feed roller and mobile base. The saw cost me $400 to use for 14 years. I had no issues with the saw at all other than a normal situation that even the Unisaw on NYW exhibited. I do have a Delta DP and like it, it replaced a smaller Rockwell radial DP. Delta Scroll Saw sucked a big one. Delta 15" stationary planer works fine but is no better IMHO than the other Jet equipment that I have. Delta 12" disk sander is useful but it is not a precision tool. Although it has adjustments for table tilt I would not want to make those adjustments. Delta 12" CMS prone to break at the guard.

And speaking of the Unisaw, the new one/latest version has dropped in prove significantly since the first few years of production. IIRC when I was looking at all of the saw brands again 2 years ago the Unisaw was in the neighborhood of $3700.00, basically the price of a PM 2000. Today it can be had for about $1000.00 less. The PM is a little less too but still north of $3K.

Anyway.....it was going to be the Euro version of a Laguna with scoring blade and sliding table or the SawStop. I chose the industrial version of the SS and I am extremely pleased with it.

[krw]

I remember that period. I didn't buy mine until 2009, though. It's been great (wish I could play with it).

The SawStop would have cost twice what I paid for the Unisaw. The capital expense board didn't have any problem with $1600. Nearly $3500 wasn't going to get approved. ;-) Remember, it doesn't represent income, rather outgo.

When I was looking at DPs, I just about went with the variable speed Powermatic but decided that it didn't go slow enough. The 18-300 came out about that time and I bought it instead.

Yes, when I bought my Unisaw the new version was about the price of the SawStop (silly). Mine was a leftover so I got a steal on it New Unisaws under $1000?

Given unlimited $$ I might have done the same. ;-)

[Leon]

I looked closely at the Powermatic VS but was really turned off by the loud noises coming from the transmission. Way too noisily for an expensive piece of equipment.

No, $1000. less that they were introduced at. You can get them now in the $2500~$2700 range.

I hear you, selling my work helps justify the expense.

[Electric Comet]

I would guess that delta will have to get more thoughtful designs to remain viable, same for jet. I looked at some videos of laguna bandsaws and if I had the $ I'd get one soon

this is nothing to do with parts wearing out, this is about bad engineering which includes bad choices for materials

jet saw short-term sales by lowering quality but long term they now will see diminished customer loyalty and lower sales

mutually assured disappointment

[John McCoy]

Electric Comet wrote in news:mcl041$dn4$1 @dont-email.me:

As an engineer, I have to comment on this. It's not "bad engineering". It's "cost engineering", which is when management forces the engineers to design to a predetermined cost. Engineers hate it, because it forces you to design in all sorts of crap to meet an unrealistic goal.

John

[Ed Pawlowski]

Price point has become more important than dependability. Anyone working in a manufacturing world had seen this for years now.

A major appliance manufacturer called in all of its suppliers. They had their unit on display as well as a competing unit from Korea. We were told to reduce the price by 25% or the product would not exist any longer. Everyone did what they had to do to meet the competition, but after a few years, China came along and the plant closed down anyway.

Who do you blame? All of us. We talk how much we want quality, but price become the deciding factor. We go to Woodcraft, fondle the tool, then order it from Amazon because it is $5 cheaper there. Just look at how well Harbor Freight is doing.

[Leon]

FWIW about 8 years ago I bought a Laguna LT16HD. I bought a 18" Rikon to replace a small Craftsman. I kept the Rikon about a week and returned it. It more closely performed like the Craftsman compared to the Laguna. I love the Laguna, it stays set and very little tweaking needs to be done with blade size changes. And it tracks perfectly.

[Electric Comet]

the videos I saw it looked like you could make veneer on the laguna

I never heard of laguna when I bought jet stuff

my impression of laguna is that they don't just copy things from other manufacturers they rethink the design and it seems to be a succesful strategy

btw lagauna are moving and having a huge sale that I can't participate in but others might be able to if in So. Calif.

[tdacon]

I bought a plastic knob and that works ok, but not as much leverage as the original handle

also the nut on the lathe tool rest that attaches under the bedway was a flattened nut with a nylon ring. the nylon gave way and the tool rest could not be adequately tightened to the bedway replaced it with a plain old nut and so far so good

What model lathe is that? I've been thinking about getting one of their

1221VS benchtop lathes, and I'm hoping that's not the model you're complaining about.

Tom

[Ed Pawlowski]

Well worth it if you have a few extra pennies in your pocket. I'm happy with my Jet bandsaw that was affordable when I bought it, but, yes, I'd go for the Laguna today.

My Jet tools have worked well and are good value, but you can step up for a few bucks more if you have it.

[Leon]

Absolutely, with the right blade. I also have the Laguna ResawKing blade. I have cut red oak veneer so thin that you can see through the pores. A worthless veneer but cool to be able to do that.

Not new by any stretch, I can remember seeing Laguna way back when. Probably 30+ years

Well actually they have other manufacturers build their equipment and they enhance it. The upper end BS's are Italian. Most of the good stuff is European. Some of the Platinum series is Taiwan.

Yes Laguna are moving. '~)

[Leon]

FWIW the Laguna BS 10 point ceramic guides sold me, they are great.

[krw]

I didn't notice that. I guess it's a good thing I didn't go that way. I really like the Delta, though changing speeds is sort of a pain (three pulleys).

Ah, that makes more sense. They were at least that much overpriced when they came out.

WW is never going to be more than a hobby for me. It keeps me out of the bars. ;-)

[krw]

I'm still trying to decide between the Laguna 14SUV and a Rikon

10-351. It won't be soon, though.

[krw]

As an engineer, I'll have to disagree. Engineering is *all* about cost. It's easy to build a bridge that will stand. It's really hard to design one that will barely stand. The goals might be unrealistic or perhaps the engineers aren't quite smart enough. ;-)

[Martin Eastburn]

Just like the cantilever locking device made out of plastic and opens / locks the back side door on my 3 door S10. The door is held in by force and the force drives the plastic to break. Wish I had a metal version. Might have to make one.

I suspect it was done to limit weight like the crappy 5mph bumpers that is used on many cars to limit weight.

Martin