New unisaw...broken trunnion

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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (cb) wrote in message

I am sorry for your trouble, but did you not have a local dealer that could take care of your needs? I have sold over 500 unisaws in my career and never had a busted trunnion. I wonder what is causing this proplem? I know it is a pain for you, a pain for WWS, and a big pain for Delta. Good luck. Mike
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This seems to be a rather frequent problem at least in the last 4 or 5 years. When shopping for a cabinet saw 4 years ago I saw a brand new Unisaw sitting on the sales floor with a broken trunnion. IIRC about a year ago Delta admitted to having a problem at the factory during assembly. Seems they were not torqueing the trunnion bolts properly. Seems that may have been just an excuse as the problem seems to be getting worse and again I seriously doubt that the trucking companies are singling out Delta.
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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (cb) wrote in message

Call Delta yourself, have pertinent information at hand. You will need serial # copy of receipt etc. Delta will send a technician to your home ,usually takes about two weeks. Less time if the tech is already in your area.They will do all the work, you do not have to be there if your wife or someone else is there to let them in. Your problem is not unique, not a manufacturing problem , a transportaion problem instead.

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No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You step back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made strong enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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Ed Pawlowski responds:

I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping problem: Has the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a fairly recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in one place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know on a lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are used, wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage (the Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job site saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the Unisaw)? Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten rougher? No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on occasion.
We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but unreported, problems exist with other, similar, saws?
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Could it just be that the trunions are Chineese made? Rich

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that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should consider the source...
dave
RKON wrote:

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At least I am not a shameless capitalist. The source is just stating the facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
Rich
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I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk. It is the parent company that dictates the quality of materials in the products that they have manufactured over seas.
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Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel bolts to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can its because the jets would be falling out of the skies. Tell me where I can get a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN plane or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do you want to but their planes? I

Absolutely True. It all comes down to profit and shareholders. In the case of Pentair they are looking to dump Delta/PC and the rest of the tool division because they squeezed everything they could out of the company. Last quarter they got single digit growth and jack on the profit margins on the Tool division. They are looking to move into the higher margin water treatment sector.
Rich
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the issue is more of "price point" than it is the country of manufacturer!
dave
RKON wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote:

No, it's because they can. The Chinese are quite capable of making fasteners for aircraft--they do after all make their own warplanes, satellites, and spacecraft. But they don't have the detailed documentation that would allow them to make an exact duplicate of the particular fastener with the same alloy, same heat treat, same surface treatment, etc. And if the engine did come apart Pratt or Rolls would point at that part and say "sorry, not our fault". Incidentally, I've seen some pretty crappy American made stuff that has Pratt & Whitney part numbers stamped on it--set it side by side with the part that Pratt made and sometimes they don't even look like the same part.
Note that in a former life I was an engineer at one of Pratt's sister companies in UTC and did a certain amount of work for and with them.

Make up your mind, do you want cheap or good? If you want good you'll probably have to go to China and track down the individual craftsman you need--China doesn't export artisan work to any great extent. If you want cheap you're going to get cheap, which works out the same in any language.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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Back when Japanese products being brought into this country were still mostly cheap junk, I spent some time in Japan. The products they had there were every bit as good as anyone's, a lot of it better than most. The American market did not see that though as importers were only bringing in the cheap stuff. I would be willing to bet that there are really good Chinese products to be had. What we see here is not so much representative of the state of Chinese manufacturing so much as the state of American importers.

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CW, you have hit that nail right smack dap dead center on the head again.
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When I was a youngsta, "Made in Japan" was synomonous with Junk. That is quite the opposite today. China is still considered a "Developing Nation" they have a long way to go until they would be considered a Developed Nation. With the high growth boom and their appetite for steel I would almost bet that the percentage of Chinese steel deemed as High Quality is much lower that of US or Russia. Yes, they can produce "Higher Quality" steel but not at our levels. They have been able to keep prices cheaper in the US because they have their currency pegged to the dollar.
Getting back to Delta and the issue of broken trunion's. Is it because of engineering? Well, has the design of the trunion in a Unisaw changed that much in the past 10 years? Is it a matter of quality control? Hmmmm. When a company like Pentair is looking to increase profits and up their profit margin what areas are impacted first? Customer Service and quality control. Look at their Income statement and their tools group saw sales grow 10% but their gross profit rose 2%. Not really good when they had 20% overall growth.
My take on this is that they don't give a hoot about increasing quality. They are under incredible pricing pressure from it competitors. They have to answer to the shareholders first and foremost.
Rich
BTW.. There was an interesting thread on the forum at woodnet about Delta muzzling one of the Delta CSR's and forbidding him from responding to questions posted there. Interesting stuff.
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bolts
its
I don't doubt for a second that the Chinese could build that bolt just as good or maybe better than the $150 steel bolt. Economics would be the reason that the Chinese buy the $150 bolt vs. making ther own in the small quanitiies that they would need.

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If you find a comparable Chinese plane to the LN plane you would would probably have to filter out "cheap". Where you error in your thinking is that you believe that no one else can produce products as good as we can.
It is the quality of materials dictated by the company marketing the product that you end up with. You can probably buy better quality Chinese steel in China. Not all of what comes out of China is their best. Probably most of the good stuff stays there. But comparing a Chinese and or Tiawan cabinet saw compared to an American built Unisaw you see that the Foreign steel may be better than that that goes in the Unisaw since it is the Unisaw trunnion that seems to have the problems.
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I dispute your entire position in this thread. To argue that an entire country's output of steel is much inferior to your preferred source is total nonsense. I have no idea why you postulate such an idea, but basically I think you are ignorant and not worthy of an intelligent discourse on the subject.
dave
RKON wrote:

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I hoe not. They buy it from us.
The source is just stating the

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I doubt they buy much steel because up to 6 months ago there was a 25% tariff that China put in place to counter Bush's Steel tariffs. They buy tons and tons of scap metal.
Rich

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I can tell you for a fact that a lot of Chinese steel is being imported for oil refineries. My neighbor is a cost engineer that over sees plant modifications and says that the imported steel meets ISO specs and is cheaper to buy.
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