New To WW - What Is With All The Norm Bashing?

Page 4 of 6  
Unisaw A100 wrote:

What, you mean you don't turn to Bob for help when you strip the nuts on your bicycle with ordinary pliers?
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:24:54 -0500, Silvan

That was shown on TV commercials and the channel locks were used backwards. You could see metal being chewed off and the resultant gnarled nut. Absolutely amazing. I laughed myself into tears over that one the first time Searz showed it. It was obviously made by an _entire_cast_and_crew_ who had never used a single hand tool in their lives. (The cameraman should have known but his laughter didn't shake the camera so he may not have had a clue, either. Ditto the grips. No shaking lights.)
------------------------------------------------------- "i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society. ---- http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Y'know, every time I see him I think: This guy must have been beaten horribly as a child.
He's mellowed some in the last few years, but he was downright painful to watch in the early nineties.
M
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I think Norm is a cool guy and his easy going personality is a pleasure to absorb during his shows. Quite a difference between him and most of the other celebrity woodworkers.
As far as what seems to elicit the most disapproval, I'd venture to say it's his penchant for overusing his brad nailer. I'm not fond of nail holes or filling them.
Most of the time I'm too busy to catch his shows, but when I do, I feel bad for having missed so many of them. I admire the guy.
dave
BJS wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave I think your just jealous that he has ALL the cool tools ! I want his wide belt sander !

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
yes. AND a lathe. and 10,000 routers; I've only got 2. And a dedicated mortiser. and 5,000 clamps. and more knowledge & experience...
dave
FOW wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
: I see that a lot of the fighting comes from the "purist" hand toolers : vs. the Norm power toolers. Some people seem to be offended just by : the fact that he uses power tools.
Mmmmm that's not what I've noticed. For example, I see lots of handtoolers in awe of Frank Klauz. Klauz uses power tools. And hand tools. In his videos, he shows many ways to accomplish the same task (e.g. mortice and tenon joints).
Klauz takes the sensible approach that if all you have to do is a few joints then hand tools are the way to go because you save setup time.

: Norm's first book, he mentions how he grew up using hand tools, and : mentions the skills that his dad taught him. He says NYW is a : departure for him from those teachings, and a chance to use power : tools to build traditional furniture.
Klauz uses power tools.
: So, two questions from a ww newbie:
: How am I being harmed in my quest to make nice projects if I follow : Norm's techniques? What are specific things he does that are "bad" and : what are the "better" ways of doing them?
It isn't his tools so much as some mistakes he made in the past concerning wood movement etc. He's gotten a lot better over time.
Then, too, there is this visceral dislike, in some of us (I'm one of them) of the use of the pneumatic nailer to hold things together. It's irrational but it's there.
--- Gregg
My woodworking projects:
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm
"Improvise, adapt, overcome." snipped-for-privacy@head-cfa.harvard.edu Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Phone: (617) 496-1558
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Gregg Germain" wrote >
>

I got to attend one of his classes on hand cut dovetails. The guy is awesome!
Glen
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
thats Frank Klausz. Thats just in case you tried to look for books/recordings at the library like I did...
irax.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Swallow the Red Pill if you really want to know. Swallow the Blue Pill if you wish to remain blissful.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9 Dec 2003 00:16:47 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (BJS) wrote:

There's nothing particularly bad about Norm, but let's face it, Norm is a wood-basher, not a wood-worker. He goes for fast construction and Tim Allen-esque "MORE POWER!". He shoots brads like they're going out of style. If the power went out, he wouldn't know what to do with himself.
That's not to say I don't like Norm, but he appeals to the weekend woodworker who is making a few things around the house, not to the craftsman who wants to make fine furniture or something that's really going to last a lifetime and beyond.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
...

This past August I spent most of a day with Norm at Old Sturbridge Village. One of the day's events was a luncheon. At the luncheon Norm gave a presentation comparing and contrasting 19th century furniture making technologies with 21st century technologies. During this presentation Norm discussed his evolution from carpenter, to TOH, to NYW and how the rolls made significantly different demands of him. He also discussed how his skills have evolved over time and how tools have evolved with him.
Two quick examples:
-He seldom uses a lathe duplicator now as his turning skills have gotten much better and he can end up with a better product using gouges and skews.
-He doesn't use the molding head cutter in the table saw any longer. The router table with "new" bit styles work better--cutting beads was his specific example.
This change over time also applies to the finishing techniques and materials. He had a piece at OSV that will appear during the new season (starts early '04). The finishing techniques he discussed were much different than anything he did 10+ years ago and he felt that he needed more experience to get it right. There was a thread running through the entire presentation in that he is always moving forward... developing new skills and a greater understanding of what makes a fine piece of furniture.
Norm's point was that he isn't the same guy as he was when NYW started. We, however, are inundated with reruns that make the changes over time less salient than they should be. I think it was a tactful way of saying that much of the criticism is not thoughtful criticism as it ignores his skill development over time. Even Maloof and Marks didn't come out of the womb doing fine work! ;-)
It was a wonderful experience and I recommend it to anyone if Norm does it again.
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It might be that we are all a little jealous of Norm....he makes a very good living doing what we love to do and most of us do it for very little money. We dream of the day that we could make a living being a woodworker. Norm has done more to promote woodworking to the masses than any other, for this I respect and thank Norm....keep spreading the word.
Mike from American Sycamore Woodworkers' Retreat www.americansycamoreretreat.com .
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks, John, for your response, and to those from everyone else.
I saw your discussion of your meeting with Norm at OSV in a previous thread. Sounds like it was an enjoyable experience.
I think your comments about Norm progressing as a woodworker are accurate from what I can tell. I've noticed how his techniques have changed from the earlier shows to the later shows. I've seen a lot of changes in how he handles cross-grain situations and in accounting for movement.
In one of his earliest shows he builds a a Shaker bedside table. It has a small top with breadboard edges. In the show he uses glue to secure the the entire length of the t&g that attach the breadboard edge to the end grain of the top. He also secures the top to the rest of the assembly by using a cleat on either end to which the top is fastened with drywall screws.
Now he would never attach a top like that. He'd attach the breadboard edge with an inch or two of glue at either end of the t&g. The top would then be fastened to the rest of the assembly with wooden clips. The clips would be screwed to the top have a small tenon that fits into a grove, holding the top to the assembly whil still allowing the clip to float in the grove with any movement in the top.
I like Norm. And I want to learn what I can from him while still realizing that there are others out there (including those on this NG) that I can also learn from. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't anything "fatal" that Norm does that I should ensure that I never do.
Also, it is about experience as well. The first project I built was a Norm bookshelf. And I used by brad nailer like crazy. Well, I hadn't though about the fact that I would have to fill all those holes! Now, I know. In the future, I will be more likely to rely less on nails and more on other techniques.
Maybe biscuits or pocket screw jointery. ;)
Thanks, again, to everyone who responded.
Thanks, Brian
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

skills
...
Reminds me of the "table" my five year old has been making for the past few months... in 10 minute or so sessions. He's pounded a gazillion 4D finish and common nails into it, screwed in a bunch of drywall screws, gobs of glue, and had me drill holes on each centering-X he drew on it. As my father puts it "he's developing skills."
I have him work on structured projects too. The last thing we made was step stools for the bathroom to replace the plastic store bought ones. His glue spreading and nailing under controlled conditions was quite good. I had him use a batter board (for lack of a better term) so that there were no stray hammer dents in the stool. After filling the nail holes I showed him how to properly hand sand with the grain. He primed the piece with a brush and gave it a light sanding to smooth the primer. I sprayed on his favorite color... orange.
The "table" will have about a 1/2 ton of iron in it by the time he's done but he really has learned from doing it. Especially the notion of centering Xs. ;-)
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
John Grossbohlin wrote:

Doesn't sound so different from my technique... <g>
-- Mark
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don't know how this one slipped past my Norm/NYWS filters (note, the filter is to having to receive endless and completely useless posts on the subject, not because I have anything against Norm) but it did so.................
99.8% of the Norm bashing is done by people with more time in front of the TV then in the shop. It's done so they can feel like they are playing with the big boys and it is safe. It is hardly likely that they will be faced with confronting Norm on the various woodworking issues so, regardless of how inane the post, they get to spout off sounding like they know what they are talking about and need not be bothered with facts.
Now to recheck those filters.
--
Mike G.
snipped-for-privacy@heirloom-woods.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sure, a lot of Nahm-bashing is done by arm-chair woodworkers. Heck, this is Usenet, so most of what goes on here is done by arm-chair [insert name of hobby here]. :-} (To say nothing of the trolls.)
But there are legit gripes about Nahm. I know that many have credited him with bringing ww'ing to the masses, and I can't argue that. I know any number of folks here on the wreck who credit him for their interest. But for every one of those, it's possible that you could find someone who was totally put off by the appearance that it is necessary to own all sorts of power tools in order to make anything. I know I used to watch Nahm before I ever raised a plane in anger :-), and I sincerely thought it was way beyond my budget/abilities.
Other personal gripes I have are his finishing techniques (poly isn't really the best finish for everything), his bradnailer fixation, his apparent lack of knowledge about wood-movement issues (though I hear he's getting better about that), and his penchant for smearing insane amounts of galoo all over the place.
We may disagree on some of the above, but they are certainly worth discussing when they are being presented on teevee on a regular basis by someone who is looked to as an authority on woodworking matters.
As for the guy himself ... I like Nahm. He seems like a regular guy who'd be fun to share a couple beers with.
Chuck Vance Just say (tmPL) But first, a few words about shop safety ...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I wonder Norm reads any of this?

the
with
of
they
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Belleauwood wrote:

Probably not. He's probably having too much fun in his shop to worry about the negative stuff a bunch of wankers are writing about him.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.