New To WW - What Is With All The Norm Bashing?

[David Babcock]

Have you ever checked out production costs?

[Mike Alexander]

As long as you don't mind paying cameramen, grips, lighting people, sound people, producers, etc, etc to stand around waiting for glue to dry. Time is money, especially in TV production.

...Mike

[stoutman]

" It isn't like you can't tell what every tool in the shop is"

Wanna bet?

saw this on an earlier post.

[David Babcock]

As does any company that underwrites any show on PBS. Can't remember the last time I saw Norm pitching for PC on DIY, or HGTV. If I see one more poorly designed, chinese made, attempt at a tool being pushed by Bob Villa with a Craftsman logo.............well I don't know what I would do.........but it can't be nice. PBS exists through at least four money channels, organized charities and philanthropic organizations, government grants and subsidies, private donations and memberships, and lastly corporate underwriting on specific shows that allows the corporate entities to mention there name twice, once at the start of the show and once at the end. Let me ask you this, are you a member of your local PBS station? TV or Radio? And if not, why not. What has Sesame Street done to you, are you afraid of Mr. Rogers? Be careful or Marian Morash will come over and cook one of her horrendous dishes for you, and you will find Roger Swain taking up residence in your home.

All this with tongue planted firmly in cheek!!!

Dave

[Charles Krug]

I've worked in RF Emissions Complience testing. An all-weather RF emissions site--that "FCC Class B Computing Device" sticker on the back of your computer--will have a metal ground plane with nothing metal above the plane, excluding the EUT and the antenna.

Interesting is how many nylon bolts you need to replace the 16d nails of conventional framing. Thousands of holes to be drilled. I'm guessing that it was prefabbed offsite, then the siding and roof were glued on.

[Mike at American Sycamore]

It might be that we are all a little jealous of Norm....he makes a very good living doing what we love to do and most of us do it for very little money. We dream of the day that we could make a living being a woodworker. Norm has done more to promote woodworking to the masses than any other, for this I respect and thank Norm....keep spreading the word.

Mike from American Sycamore Woodworkers' Retreat

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[BJS]

Thanks, John, for your response, and to those from everyone else.

I saw your discussion of your meeting with Norm at OSV in a previous thread. Sounds like it was an enjoyable experience.

I think your comments about Norm progressing as a woodworker are accurate from what I can tell. I've noticed how his techniques have changed from the earlier shows to the later shows. I've seen a lot of changes in how he handles cross-grain situations and in accounting for movement.

In one of his earliest shows he builds a a Shaker bedside table. It has a small top with breadboard edges. In the show he uses glue to secure the the entire length of the t&g that attach the breadboard edge to the end grain of the top. He also secures the top to the rest of the assembly by using a cleat on either end to which the top is fastened with drywall screws.

Now he would never attach a top like that. He'd attach the breadboard edge with an inch or two of glue at either end of the t&g. The top would then be fastened to the rest of the assembly with wooden clips. The clips would be screwed to the top have a small tenon that fits into a grove, holding the top to the assembly whil still allowing the clip to float in the grove with any movement in the top.

I like Norm. And I want to learn what I can from him while still realizing that there are others out there (including those on this NG) that I can also learn from. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't anything "fatal" that Norm does that I should ensure that I never do.

Also, it is about experience as well. The first project I built was a Norm bookshelf. And I used by brad nailer like crazy. Well, I hadn't though about the fact that I would have to fill all those holes! Now, I know. In the future, I will be more likely to rely less on nails and more on other techniques.

Maybe biscuits or pocket screw jointery. ;)

Thanks, again, to everyone who responded.

Thanks, Brian

[Iraxl Enb]

thats Frank Klausz. Thats just in case you tried to look for books/recordings at the library like I did...

irax.

[Andy Dingley]

Round these parts, "conventional" framing uses oak treenails and no iron at all, same as it has for centuries.

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

[Silvan]

Not so much bad as out of touch with the common man, maybe.

I used to watch Norm and Roy after Saturday morning cartoons, back in the mid to late '80s. Roy made beautiful, complicated stuff with practically nothing, and Norm had a specialized doodad to mechanize almost everything.

From what I hear, Norm has a lot more specialized doodads now than he did back then.

I don't watch either of them, or any other TV for that matter, but I think I'd still prefer Roy's show to Norm's. I'm *not* a Neander. I'm a Cro-Magnon maybe. I do some Neander stuff, and some Normish stuff. I have no desire to buy a planer and jointer, and no desire to buy a whole collection of good hand saws or a brace and bit.

[John Grossbohlin]

...

Reminds me of the "table" my five year old has been making for the past few months... in 10 minute or so sessions. He's pounded a gazillion 4D finish and common nails into it, screwed in a bunch of drywall screws, gobs of glue, and had me drill holes on each centering-X he drew on it. As my father puts it "he's developing skills."

I have him work on structured projects too. The last thing we made was step stools for the bathroom to replace the plastic store bought ones. His glue spreading and nailing under controlled conditions was quite good. I had him use a batter board (for lack of a better term) so that there were no stray hammer dents in the stool. After filling the nail holes I showed him how to properly hand sand with the grain. He primed the piece with a brush and gave it a light sanding to smooth the primer. I sprayed on his favorite color... orange.

The "table" will have about a 1/2 ton of iron in it by the time he's done but he really has learned from doing it. Especially the notion of centering Xs. ;-)

John

[Mark Jerde]

Doesn't sound so different from my technique...

-- Mark

[DL]

DL

> Evidently your buddy Cedeño is a bastard.

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"When you make fun of someone washing his truck, that's sad."

- Jeff Kent

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Halter Sucks!

[Dennis M. O'Connor]

I didn't realize weekend furniture makers were on TV. Contrary to what the Dish Network PVR ads might lead you to believe, you can't skip-ahead or rewind in real life.

Other people have commented on how uneconomic it is to have a TV crew just "wait for the glue to set".

[Brian Henderson]

David Marks doesn't seem to have a problem doing it, does he?

[George G]

I see a lot of truths in this thread and also a lot of jealousy because someone is making money from WW. Some of these people would like to be in their shoes.

[Patrick]

I love watching TOH and NYW. I actually think TOH has gone down hill though. They used to show how things were done in more detail, now they just gloss over it and send the host somewhere to showcase some historic landmark or what not. With that being said, it is a lot better than most of the DIY shows geared toward retarded homeowners. I worked for several years in professional carpentry and most of the crap they show is so dumbed down it's pathetic. I would rather watch how pro's accomplish something than some dumb blond with a toll apron reading a script. About Norm, however, what frustrates a new woodworker like me is that Norm rarely shows how to do something without "this or that " power tool. I figure that most people watching his show are hobbyists or beginners and don't own the array of tools he uses. The people that do own that many tools are mostly professionals or more experienced and don't have much to gain from watching him.( except entertainment value and to critique his work). OTOH, he does have to appeal to a wide range of viewers. A very good show that I was sad to see go was " Furniture to Go". It focused on finishing/refinishing and upholstering. They regularly bagged on Norm and showcased some excellent techniques.

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:48:35 GMT, Brian Henderson brought forth from the murky depths:

2 points, Bri.

P.S: And Marks is on DIY with prolly 10% of Morash' budget and (AFAIK) no donated tools.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- I sent in my $5, so *

why haven't I been 'saved'? * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

[Bay Area Dave]

So Brian, would YOU care to pay for the production of NYW? You watch it; perhaps you should help pay for it. Then they can pull all those shots of PC tools you despise so much.

dave

Brian Henders> >

[Chris Merrill]

They are called 'sponsors'...and I would hardly equate that with "kissing and advertisers ass". Somebody has to pay for the shows?

Are you a regular donator to your local PBS station? If not, then shut your trap - you're getting something for nothing and if you don't like it, the rest of us don't care. If you think it's so easy to produce a good product that many people use but barely anyone pays for...then step up to the plate!

If you are (a donator), then surely you understand that the money for these shows must come from somewhere...and most people watch for free, but don't pay.