New to Tung oil. Have question.

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Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new. I made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung oil/urethane mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply? The directions on the can are a little sketchy.
Thanks
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You are testing on scrap, aren't you?
Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five coats. It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly, like one of the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more evenly.
Patriarch
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poly; it will produce a better result than poly/oil.
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<snip>

If you want no build, then there is no reason to add the urethanes to the mixture. Sealacell is _reputed_ to work somewhat like my current favorite varnish oil type finish, Waterlox Original. If I wanted almost no build, Tried & True products work that way.
The _only_ poly with which I've had success is Varathane Waterbased Diamond something or other. (It's out in the shop.) But it cures very quickly, and I haven't learned to spray it with the Critter without some orange peel. Minwax poly (of any flavor) and I don't seem to get along.
There are too many options in finishes, and variations in requirements, to get too religious about finishes. Do what works for you. Don't hurry.
Patriarch, who would prefer to shellac everything, but there are grandkids afoot.
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Patriarch wrote:

Patriarch, like you I like shellac for almost everything. A shellac and wax finish is hard to beat for general use.
Actually, Stoutman asks a question that should really be answered with another question. What "look" do you want on your project. Oil finishes will have a low luster but a rich look. Poly's have high luster and a less rich look. What "look" are you looking for?
Deb
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Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably don't contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for alot of things these days.
Brian.

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I really doubt it. I have used poly for several years. Smells and behaves nothing like polyurethane.
Says right on the can Tung oil/urethane mix.

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Part of the allure of GF stuff for me, is the wipe on aspect. But that means, lots of coats. Thin coats. 4 or 5 or 6 if you really want a nice rich look. But it goes on fast, dries fast. I liked it enough to buy a second can. I haven't bought a 2nd can of any one finsih product in a long time. I like this stuff.
-Dan V.
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"Dan Valleskey" <valleskey at comcast dot net> wrote in message

So do I, Dan. I live about 15 minutes from the General factory and just picked up a can of Sealacell in a discontinues color that had been recalled. I'm using their satin finish over the oil/poly stain on a stereo cabinet with different techniques: big coats for the interior that won't be noticed and wipe-off for the exterior. It dries beautifully and used properly gives a deep richness that a simple film can't provide.
P.S. I've also used shellac but for this guy I wanted something that would stay moist longer on those large areas. Shellac is a pain when it dries too soon and wrinkles.
Bob
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One is linseed/urethane, the other tung/urethane. Rest is in the volatiles. If you can take the smell of tung, have at it.
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Well ignorance is bliss... Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Do you think there's really tung oil in Minwax Tung Oil? It says tung oil right on the can, and in fact, it's called "Tung Oil" The answer is, again, probably not or at best very very little. It's more likely to be a mixture of various oils and ALOT of paint thinner. Many different elixers are called "Tung Oil" for mass marketting today. But even real tung oil doesn't offer anything in the way of protection that linseed oil doesn't, anyhow. Now, these finishes all have different smell characteristics because they're wiping varnishes with varying amounts of oils vs. resins and solvents. So like I said, I believe Seal-A-Cell to have more oil than Arm-R-Seal, and so the protective characteristics of Seal-A-Cell aginst products like household cleaners is going to be less than Arm-R-Seal. And furthermore, if comparing Arm-R-Seal to straight poly such as Minwax, one will find that the Minwax will win against harsh household chemicals. It has to do with the resin contents of each of these finishes that varies... More oil vs. more resin. And the higher resin content of Minwax poly vs. Arm-R-Seal or Arm-R-Seal vs. Seal-A-Cell gives the greatest protection. This is why Arm-R-Seal is the "top coat" product, which begs the question: why bother with the Seal-A-Cell undercoat at all? It's a good question becayse the line about oils sealing and penetrating is sooo overblown. Nothing seals like shellac.
FWIW
Brian.

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Bri, What lab did you have it analyzed at for its percent tung oil content? How do you know it has no (or very little) tung oil in it? What are you baseing this on?

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stoutman wrote:

LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of your own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why not compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to its assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not compare the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying time of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at the very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in anything else you see advertised every single day?
Brian.
Brian.
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Brian,
Wow, you are really convincing. What leg work did you do for me? All you do is speculate.
Your logic:
"but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly" because the price of pure tung oil is more expensive than Seal-A-Cell.
hmm. Seal A Cell is not "pure" tung oil. I never claimed that and neither does GF. How can you compare the price of "pure" tung oil with a finish that is a some percentage of tung oil? When you buy "pure" tung oil, how do you know you are getting "pure" tung oil? Do you have access to an hplc?
Again, how can you compare the drying time of "pure" tung oil with a finish that is a mixture of tung oil and urethane? Apples and oranges Brian. Come on man.
Marketing hype?? Why not ad "conspiracy theory" while your at it.
If this is all you have to base your decision on regarding the presence of Tung oil in Seal-A-Cell (Lets review, 1. price, 2. drying time, 3. marketing hype) then ... VERY weak.
So you are under the impression that GF is marketing Seal-A-Cell as a tung oil/varnish mix and it is really "basically just poly". Hmmm. You must be right Bri. You certainly convinced me.. :)

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No. The Arm-R-Seal is basically poly. The Seal-A-Cell is nothing more than an oil/varnish mixture. It contains no real tung oil, shouldn't be called "tung oil" just like the Minwax product shouldn't. In fact, both are almost identical and contain linseed oil rather than tung oil. Tung oil is a marketting catch phrase that is misleading nowadays.
Check your can. If hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a while, you'll see that General Finishes has taken all reference to "tung oil" off their label and literature and now just refer to "oil". Minwax should follow their lead. But I wouldn't get to hung up on the type of oil. There's nothing special about tung oil vs. linseed oil anyhow, and not enough of ANY oil in the GF product to matter too terribly much - especially if you overcoat it.
These are the facts. Take it or leave it. I'm done with this thread.
Brian.
stoutman wrote:

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Maybe your right...not sure. You just didn't convince me. The can says tung oil. Who should I believe, some guy ranting on the internet with no real argument other than speculation or the can in front of me that says tung oil?

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ALWAYS believe the guy on the internet.
--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows
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Smells like tung, behaves like tung, must be polyurethane.

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stoutman wrote:

Depends if you want a sheen to it or not. My latest favorite finish is a Oil/Wax finish. I put one coat of oil (which is really a Tung Varnish, Minwax variety) to bring out the grain... Wait a couple of days, then apply a paste wax with 00 or 0000 steel wool as the applicator. Rub the hell out of it, and IMMEDIATELY wipe off the excess. I do not let the wax dry, otherwise I get streaks. It gets REALLY smooth, and develops a soft shine to it.
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I recently made a small bedside table top in quartersawn white oak to match my Stickley bed. After applying stains to match the bed, I used about four coats of satin Arm-R-Seal. The finish on the two pieces looks nearly identical, so I think you'll be fine.
Kevin
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