Having lost mt patience with polyurethane I decided to try something new. I
made a mission bed for my son and I decided to go with a Tung oil/urethane
mixture (General Finishes, Sealacell). How many coats should I apply? The
directions on the can are a little sketchy.
You are testing on scrap, aren't you?
Stop when it looks like you want it to. That might be four or five coats.
It depends on how you apply it. If you wipe it down qickly, like one of
the TV gurus does, it builds more slowly, but more evenly.
If you want no build, then there is no reason to add the urethanes to the
mixture. Sealacell is _reputed_ to work somewhat like my current favorite
varnish oil type finish, Waterlox Original. If I wanted almost no build,
Tried & True products work that way.
The _only_ poly with which I've had success is Varathane Waterbased Diamond
something or other. (It's out in the shop.) But it cures very quickly,
and I haven't learned to spray it with the Critter without some orange
peel. Minwax poly (of any flavor) and I don't seem to get along.
There are too many options in finishes, and variations in requirements, to
get too religious about finishes. Do what works for you. Don't hurry.
who would prefer to shellac everything, but there are grandkids afoot.
Patriarch, like you I like shellac for almost everything. A shellac and wax
finish is hard to beat for general use.
Actually, Stoutman asks a question that should really be answered with
another question. What "look" do you want on your project. Oil finishes
will have a low luster but a rich look. Poly's have high luster and a less
rich look. What "look" are you looking for?
Well I hate to break it to you, but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically
just poly. They're certainly a very short oil finish, and probably don't
contain any tung oil at all. "Tung oil" is kind of a catch phrase for alot
of things these days.
Part of the allure of GF stuff for me, is the wipe on aspect. But
that means, lots of coats. Thin coats. 4 or 5 or 6 if you really
want a nice rich look. But it goes on fast, dries fast. I liked it
enough to buy a second can. I haven't bought a 2nd can of any one
finsih product in a long time. I like this stuff.
"Dan Valleskey" <valleskey at comcast dot net> wrote in message
So do I, Dan. I live about 15 minutes from the General factory and just
picked up a can of Sealacell in a discontinues color that had been recalled.
I'm using their satin finish over the oil/poly stain on a stereo cabinet
with different techniques: big coats for the interior that won't be noticed
and wipe-off for the exterior. It dries beautifully and used properly gives
a deep richness that a simple film can't provide.
P.S. I've also used shellac but for this guy I wanted something that would
stay moist longer on those large areas. Shellac is a pain when it dries too
soon and wrinkles.
Well ignorance is bliss... Arm-R-Seal pretty much *is* poly for all intents
and purposes, while Seal-A-Cell only contains slightly more oil. No ifs,
ands, or buts about it. Do you think there's really tung oil in Minwax Tung
Oil? It says tung oil right on the can, and in fact, it's called "Tung Oil"
The answer is, again, probably not or at best very very little. It's more
likely to be a mixture of various oils and ALOT of paint thinner. Many
different elixers are called "Tung Oil" for mass marketting today. But even
real tung oil doesn't offer anything in the way of protection that linseed
oil doesn't, anyhow. Now, these finishes all have different smell
characteristics because they're wiping varnishes with varying amounts of
oils vs. resins and solvents. So like I said, I believe Seal-A-Cell to have
more oil than Arm-R-Seal, and so the protective characteristics of
Seal-A-Cell aginst products like household cleaners is going to be less than
Arm-R-Seal. And furthermore, if comparing Arm-R-Seal to straight poly such
as Minwax, one will find that the Minwax will win against harsh household
chemicals. It has to do with the resin contents of each of these finishes
that varies... More oil vs. more resin. And the higher resin content of
Minwax poly vs. Arm-R-Seal or Arm-R-Seal vs. Seal-A-Cell gives the greatest
protection. This is why Arm-R-Seal is the "top coat" product, which begs
the question: why bother with the Seal-A-Cell undercoat at all? It's a good
question becayse the line about oils sealing and penetrating is sooo
overblown. Nothing seals like shellac.
LOL. Alright, well, if you're not willing to do any legwork of your
own to discover what is common knowledge, then so be it. But why not
compare the cost of high quality natural tung oil to the cost of
synthetic resins, and then come to a more educated conclusion as to its
assay based on the price of a quart of Seal-A-Cell. Why not compare
the drying time of a month or so for real tung oil to the drying time
of under one day for Seal-A-Cell, and then decide if there's really
enough tung oil (or other oil) in it to make a difference? Or at the
very least, why not just be open to the possibility that there's no
less marketing hype in commerical wood finishing products than in
anything else you see advertised every single day?
Wow, you are really convincing. What leg work did you do for me? All you
do is speculate.
"but Seal-A-Cell and Arm-R-Seal are basically just poly" because the price
of pure tung oil is more expensive than Seal-A-Cell.
hmm. Seal A Cell is not "pure" tung oil. I never claimed that and neither
does GF. How can you compare the price of "pure" tung oil with a finish
that is a some percentage of tung oil? When you buy "pure" tung oil, how do
you know you are getting "pure" tung oil? Do you have access to an hplc?
Again, how can you compare the drying time of "pure" tung oil with a finish
that is a mixture of tung oil and urethane? Apples and oranges Brian. Come
Marketing hype?? Why not ad "conspiracy theory" while your at it.
If this is all you have to base your decision on regarding the presence of
Tung oil in Seal-A-Cell (Lets review, 1. price, 2. drying time, 3. marketing
hype) then ... VERY weak.
So you are under the impression that GF is marketing Seal-A-Cell as a tung
oil/varnish mix and it is really "basically just poly". Hmmm. You must be
right Bri. You certainly convinced me.. :)
No. The Arm-R-Seal is basically poly. The Seal-A-Cell is nothing more
than an oil/varnish mixture. It contains no real tung oil, shouldn't
be called "tung oil" just like the Minwax product shouldn't. In fact,
both are almost identical and contain linseed oil rather than tung oil.
Tung oil is a marketting catch phrase that is misleading nowadays.
Check your can. If hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a while,
you'll see that General Finishes has taken all reference to "tung oil"
off their label and literature and now just refer to "oil". Minwax
should follow their lead. But I wouldn't get to hung up on the type of
oil. There's nothing special about tung oil vs. linseed oil anyhow,
and not enough of ANY oil in the GF product to matter too terribly much
- especially if you overcoat it.
These are the facts. Take it or leave it. I'm done with this thread.
Maybe your right...not sure. You just didn't convince me. The can says
tung oil. Who should I believe, some guy ranting on the internet with no
real argument other than speculation or the can in front of me that says
Depends if you want a sheen to it or not. My latest favorite finish is
a Oil/Wax finish. I put one coat of oil (which is really a Tung
Varnish, Minwax variety) to bring out the grain... Wait a couple of
days, then apply a paste wax with 00 or 0000 steel wool as the
applicator. Rub the hell out of it, and IMMEDIATELY wipe off the
excess. I do not let the wax dry, otherwise I get streaks. It gets
REALLY smooth, and develops a soft shine to it.
I recently made a small bedside table top in quartersawn white oak to
match my Stickley bed. After applying stains to match the bed, I used
about four coats of satin Arm-R-Seal. The finish on the two pieces
looks nearly identical, so I think you'll be fine.
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