New shop suggestions (long)

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I'm getting a rare opportunity to make a new shop from scratch. I'll get all of a three car garage. We'll have a separate barn/outbuilding for the lawn equipment and bicycles and such. Here's what I've been thinking:
A separate subpanel for the equipment, although I'm undecided on the current. I have a 100amp panel mainly for the extra breaker positions, but I may only run 60 amps to it. Should I do the whole 100? It's possible although unlikely that I could end up with some really big machines and maybe even a rotary 3-phase converter. Although for the time being, I'm not likely to have more than a 5 horse single phase on any machine.
I'm considering framing a separate room for the dust collector and compressor. Right now, I have a little PC pancake compressor that can wake the dead, but I plan on a big 80-gallon compressor when I move up to hvlp. Should I make a little room for these things or leave them out in the open? What should I do to sound-proof the room? insulate? solid core door?
How would this room affect the dust collector? wouldn't I need some sort of air return between this little room and the rest of the garage defeating the sound isolation? Maybe this would help the air quality keeping the fine stuff that gets past the DC in that room and not ni teh rest of the garage?
I figured this room would be maybe half the size of a 1-car garage, maybe a little smaller.
I could also frame the rest of that 1-car garage side to be a finishing room. Is this worth it? Or would it be better to just have a finishing "area" so I could use that space for something else just in case? Believe it or not, I'm worried about being able to squeeze into a 2-car garage, but I guess if the DC and compressor are out of the way, it would be easy. I guess I could use the finishing room for assembly and storage also.
Should I paint the floor with something? The bare concrete in my current garage/shop has been fine. I'm thinking that by painting it white, it might brighten up the shop. I'm worried about the floor being too slick when there's sawdust on it though.
Another idea for the floor crossed my mind. The ceilings are going to be about 10'. I could, in theory, build up the floor by 6" and run electrical and DC under the floor, even heat. That would certainly raise some eyebrows I think if anyone saw it with the door open. It also would prevent me from moving the machines and fitting a car in the shop for an emergency winter auto repair. It would also make an unwanted step at the garage door. The thought did cross my mind though.
6" or 4" ductwork?
I plan to insulate which made a huge difference in the current place. What should I put on the walls? I'd like to cover the wall with wood so I can screw stuff in anywhere, but I'm worried about the cost of that. What do you guys use? pegboard? t&g paneling? painted plywood? osb? I hate drywall so I'd like to avoid that.
Heating should be an easy problem to solve, but what about A/C? I can't use a window A/C since there's no window, and I'd likely end up with a lynch-mob in the tract neighborhood. Any creative ideas for using a window A/C without a window, venting out the garage door somehow? Maybe run a duct from the house A/C?
I think a ceiling fan would mix up the air and help with heating.
Sorry for so many questions, thanks.
brian
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I would use the 100, one never knows what the future holds.

I would not put the compressor in the same room as the DC. A compressor needs a cool/clean environment. Its generates heat when running and needs fresh, clean air for optimum efficiency. I would build the room, sepreate the two machines from each other. Provide for cool/outside air for the compressor.

The dust collector will need a place to vent the air it draws from your shop. I don't know where you live, so suggestions on how or even the necessity to return the air back to your shop. Here in sunny SoCal, I just let it vent to the outside.

If I had the room, I would definitely have a separate finishing room, complete with a mini spray booth.

Light grey two part epoxy would be my choice if I could not have a hardwood floor.

10' ceilings are great. I would try to have the electrical and DC in the floor. I would not raise the floor above grade, I would pour it lower, add the DC and electrical runs then build it back to grade level.

6" mains - 4" drops to the machines.

Painted Plywood would be my choice. I hate pegboard. I now only have one small section 4x4 on one wall and its a pain.

A/C in the shop? Again I don't know the area you live so its hard to say. Window A/C units are terribly inefficient but they do cool well. If I had to have one, I just frame a hole in the wall and stuff one in. If its an eye sore to the neighbors, put a trellis around it and plant something there.

Yep. But you will hit it every day. DAMHIKT
Dave

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I agree, but I think the inefficiency would be counteracted by the idea that it would only be used on certain days during the day for only a couple months out of the year. Framing an opening might be an interesting idea. I know there will be two separate air conditioners outside on the side of the house. I may be able to put in the window A/C next to them, then landscape. I doubt anyone would notice or care in that case.
brian
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brianlanning wrote:

I put an a/c through the wall in my shop but did it late in the year so I've only got to feel it's benefits for a few hot days. I wish I'd installed one years ago. with a PG&E rebate, the a/c cost a mere $90. It's a Whirlpool with a remote--got it at Lowe's. I used it on a few 90+ days and it kept the shop comfortable. It's mounted high, near the ceiling so it's out of the way and cold air falls, so having the cool air enter the shop near the ceiling works well anyhow.
Dave
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Sounds like maybe this is the solution. I'd almost certainly have to put it near the floor so that I can hide it outside. Maybe I could cook up some duct-work inside the shop to get it up to the ceiling and into all those rooms I've been talking about.
brian
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Why do you have to hide it Brian?
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It's a typical tract neighborhood in the People's Republic of Illinois. There's probably a home owner's association covenant that says no window air conditioners. I can understand this on something like a top floor bedroom window on the front of the house. But for the side where I want it, I wouldn't care at all. That's me though. A neightborhood we moved out of (partly because of the association) used to put nasty letters in my mailbox for... wait for it... parking in my driveway. I suspect I could get away with teh A/C unit. But maybe not. You never know. If it were next to the other two outdoor A/C units, probably no one would complain.
brian
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I lived in a subdivision that gave fines for leaving the garage door opened for more than 10 minutes at a time. I was thrilled to move out.
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brianlanning (in snipped-for-privacy@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com) said:
| I plan to insulate which made a huge difference in the current | place. What should I put on the walls? I'd like to cover the wall | with wood so I can screw stuff in anywhere, but I'm worried about | the cost of that. What do you guys use? pegboard? t&g paneling? | painted plywood? osb? I hate drywall so I'd like to avoid that.
In my last home (basement) workshop I paneled the walls with car siding. It wasn't the cheapest solution, but it created an attractive and relaxing area for woodworking. (And it made the house a _lot_ easier to sell when the time came.)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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What's "car siding"?
TomNie
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Tom Nie (in 1kuDf.253$ snipped-for-privacy@fe03.lga) said:
|| In my last home (basement) workshop I paneled the walls with car || siding. It wasn't the cheapest solution, but it created an || attractive and relaxing area for woodworking. (And it made the || house a _lot_ easier to sell when the time came.) | | What's "car siding"?
[ Sorry - I unintentionally responded directly with this explanation. I meant to post here for group review. ]
Car siding is either 4" or 6" (nominal) tongue and groove with a face bevel at both sides. The six-inch width often has a center V-groove. Think "knotty pine". When well-sanded and wiped a couple of times with boiled linseed oil it takes on a warm light-honey glow.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Not a problem and thanks for the reply. TomNie
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Don't know if this will help your situation or not ... but I'll offer anyway.
We have two standalone (portable) A/C units (one for living room, one for bedroom). They, in theory, vent through a window, but you could easily vent through a wall, as well. One's a Maytag (and came from the Borg), and a I forget what the other brand is.
They are handy, here in the PNW -- where we live, we don't get too many really hot days, and these are more than enough to knock the heat out of the house (we're in a bit of forest, the house is 2 stories + daylight basement). Installing A/C for the whole house would be prohibitively expensive for too little return.
Best part is you can roll them around to where ever you need them.
--
Regards,

JT
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I thought about a contraption where I could open a garage door by about two feet, then roll the AC up to the opening and vent to the outside that way, maybe with something cooked up to block the rest of the opening. It would be nice to roll it out of the way when it's not hot.
brian
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We thought about a similar thing before we broke down and bought the standalone units. Be aware (and you may already know this) -- for the standard window mount units, you have to tilt the outside edge 'down' to allow the condensate to drip.
The standalone units have a builtin tray. I think we had to empty ours every couple of weeks, so it was minimal hassle.
Oh, you'd also mentioned a ceiling fan to circulate the air. We've got one in the kitchen. It helps quite a lot. It was already there when we bought the house. It's not something I would have thought to install, but we are glad it's there ... -- Regards,
JT Speaking only for myself....
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We had them in all the bedrooms out last house. Now we don't have them (no hookups). We really miss them a lot. Now that were building a new house, we're putting the hookups in all the bedrooms again. It's the perfect solution to the air stratification problem.
brian
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Let me be the first to say you suck.

More is always better. You'll almost certainly never need 100A for a non-commercial venture, but you sound like you might be planning on some big toys down the road, so why not just allow for it now? It's always a pain in the butt to go back and retrofit things.

Insulation would be good. Some of the Hi-R rigid insulations might be better than fiberglass though. You might want to do a little research on that. I wish my compressor was in a little room. I don't want to waste the floor space, plus the compressor I have now is a more recent addition than some of the other things that have been in place for a while - like the furnace. So - mine just sits on the floor along a wall and I put up with the noise. As compressors go, it's fairly quite, but a compressor is a compressor - they make noise.

Can't see why you should need any air return.

That's a lot of room. I'd rethink that. You could probably get by with 6x6 or so.

I have one bay with all pegboard, and two bays with sheetrock. It's served me very well.

Check with an HVAC guy on the AC. If you run it from your house you'll need to balance the system.
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I tried to talk swmbo into letting me use the basement. It's abou 1500sqft. I had plans to put in either a cellar door or a subterranean door with stairs outside. Maybe a wench so I could lower heavy stuff easily. She wanted it for storage and a large play room for the kids though. So she's ok with never parking in the garage. As it turns out, we can have an outbuilding also as long as it looks like the house. So I figure we'll put that in to hold all the bikes (with eight kids, we have about 10 bicycles), snow stuff, and yard stuff, plus extra mystery storage. That should free the garage of everything not related to woodworking or auto repair.
I'm getting greedy with space though so I'm looking for ways to maximize the situation though. I could probably talk her into allowing the 80-gal compressor in the basement tucked away somewhere quiet. The DC probably has to stay in the garage to keep the dust out of the house. I can probably also commandeer a little more space in the basement without too much trouble. Maybe lumber storage or something.
I tried to get a 4-car garage option, but they don't offer one, lol.
brian
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Yes!!! That's what every man needs - a wench. I wouldn't get one that was burley enough to lift heavy things though. Just get a winch for that.
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ROFLMAO!
Missed tat when I read it the first time.

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