New poster/woodworker

[notbob]

Yes. The first joint I researched is the pocket-hole joint. I also have a fiberboard face frame cross-piece (15"x1-5/8"x9/16") that ripped out cuz the pkt-hls failed for the usual fiberboard reasons. I kinda like the pkt-hl joint, but do NOT like the plastic tools Kreg makes to do the job. Anyone have any experience with the all-metal HF jig?

Our local cabinetry shop, which got me started down this seemingly endless road, makes its drawer boxes with baltic birch (ply), using biscuit joints. Is there a cheaper alternative to BB ply?

I have to replace the drawers, one at a time. I figure I'll use 1/2" b.birch fer the box and use a different joint (biz, box, dove, etc) with each drawer, depending on which tools --and how many clamps!-- I have access to, at that time. When I have the tools and knowledge, I'll attempt the full face frame and countertop.

Now, I need to replace all the decayed rubber parts on my B&D Workbench 225. Boy, did that thing ever fall apart, suddenly. Oh yeah ....and replace those crappy fiberboard slats (work-top?) before they go south! ;)

nb

[DerbyDad03]

Speaking of pocket holes and biscuits, I used my Kreg jig to mock up a 5/4" x 8" x 38" square frame for the pot rack I'm making. Once it had SWMBO's approval, I took out the screws and used 4 biscuits at each joint, clamping the frame while the glue dried. Just before I walked away I looked down on the table and saw the screws lying there. Then I looked at the pocket holes in the frame.

I paused, I hesitated, I tried to walk away. I just couldn't do it. Back in went the screws. 4 biscuits and 2 pocket screws per joint. The wall will come down before this thing falls apart. ;-)

[Swingman]

Too bad. Nothing at all wrong with the newer injection molded plastic Kreg jigs.

AAMOF, I gave my old metal K2 of yore away because it did not allow use of dust collection to keep the holes clear ... a real PITA with the old K2 when production cutting a kitchen full of face frames.

Built literally thousands of FF's using the newer Kreg with nary a problem.

[Swingman]

Yes, AND there many more correct ways to build drawers than to misuse biscuit joinery.

If they indeed do that, you should run the other way down that road as fast as you can, as there is a no more shoddy way to build a drawer than to use biscuit joinery ... a guaranteed, unarguably, misguided FAIL from the get go.

[Swingman]

1/32" is a worthy goal to shoot for, as it is easy to see on most measuring devices with 1/16" indices ... and it also lets you interpolate to +/- 1/64th when the need arises ... and it does:

A 1/64" gap on a joint is readily apparent. ;)

[Swingman]

Baltic birch is a good material for a relatively inexpensive, but long lasting, with the proper joinery, drawer boxes.

A good, medium strong joint for the plywood drawer box is a locking rabbet joint. A joinery method that will stand the test of time in any drawer that uses up to a 100 lb drawer slide, and is MUCH stronger than a biscuit joint for the repeated forces a drawer must eventually withstand.

The locking rabbet joint can be made on either a router table using a "locking rabbet" bit set, or on the table saw.

Keep in mind that many full service hardwood lumber yards carry pre-finished, plywood drawer side material, in varying widths (but usually 6' lengths), with a groove pre-cut for 1/4" plywood bottoms, which can also be found pre-finished with the same polyurethane finish as the sides.

[Puckdropper]

Swingman wrote in news: [e-mail]:

My K4 has a metal insert that keeps the bit from digging in the plastic. That metal insert is sharp! Use a acuum, compressed air or brush to clean it, and not your fingers!

Puckdropper

[Leon]

FWIW I am currently working with 4 sheets of MDO. It is 97/128" thick. I used my digital caliper to set up my dado set to cut a groove for that material. While it is a good idea to work or design around 1/16" increments expect to run into instances where you need to be more accurate than that for pieces to fit together.

[notbob]

Yes. It is sad.

In yer opinion.

I've already dealt with enough plastic in my life. I'm getting into woodworking cuz I wanna get away from plastic.

Yeah, I know. There is still gonna be tons o' plastic around the shop. Try and find some hand power tools that are still all metal, like my '70 Milwaukee all-metal-casing 1/2" drill motor. Fat chance.

I'm cleaning out my late mother's property. Jes today, I've already found 3 almost new pwr tools. Two corded orb sanders (hope one has a dust blwr) and and an ultra cheap B&D bat drill motor. Now I have 3 orb sanders, four battery drill motors, 2 Skil saws (gave the worm-drive away), and they all are mostly plastic construction.

Another reason I dislike plastic: Know what a Robot Coupe immersion blender is?

Our model cost over $600, yet it fell over in the kitchen and the plastic handle broke into a dozen pieces when it hit the kitchen floor (which is always present). Oops! Last time I saw it, it was a Red Green special.

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[notbob]

Not the way I plan to go. Still, my buddy has a biscuit joiner tool.

I was thinking the cheapest entry would be box joints. Buy a good saw, a good chisel, and some glue. Then, borrow a boatload of clamps.

Anyone make a good joinery saw fer under $50? (saw handle). No way I can afford one of those Rob Cosman thingies. 8|

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[notbob]

Yeah, I know. I usta be able to judge a .005" gap. Now I'm old. Gotta wear cheaters. :(

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[notbob]

I thought the biscuit joint would be stronger. I'll hafta look up a "locking rabbet joint".

I'm in the boonies, the high Colorado Rockies, so no HDs or Lowe's around here. Heck, the lumber yards aren't even open on Sun! :)

nb

[notbob]

As an ex-machinist, I have some rather accurate measuring tools. Metric is not a problem. ;)

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[Leon]

;~) FWIW you can get tooooooo anal. I don't know how small you can measure but anything finer than 1/128" gets confusing fast with the inconsistencies of sheet goods and milled lumber.

I use a $35 digital caliper that shows thousandths", 1/128" and mm and it is almost too detailed.

I am starting to see advantages of going strictly metric except for one fact. Hardware is very often set up with metric lengths and sizes however I cant tell you how many times I have seen metric instructions indicating to measure fractions/hundredths of a millimeter.

A good example are full extension drawer slides. Almost everything about them is in millimeters except their width, which is commonly 1/2".

Another funny one is Leigh Jigs. Directions to upgrade your current older jig. The instructions on the last page on the below link ask that you drill holes at 4.37mm and 3.57mm in diameter. Aside from that the jig is metric, IIRC.

[Leon]

[notbob]

Sorry. I don't dwnld PDF files proffered in newsgroups. Thnx anyway.

nb

[Leon]

Understood. ;~)

[Mike Marlow]

Then why bother to even ask questions on a forum like this. Maybe you should just go on in the way that you you to be the best.

[Ed Pawlowski]

From a stranger I'd agree. From the regulars here I'd not hesitate. Your choice, your loss.

[notbob]

Cuz it's woodworking I need help with, not computer security. ;)

nb