New Delta X5 14" Band Saw - Too Much Vibration?

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Okay, guys, I just got my Delta X5 14" band saw (28-475X) assembled and running, and I'm not entirely pleased. I haven't used the 14" X5 before, so I don't know if my expectations are justified or unreasonable. I took my time assembling it (pulleys aligned, etc.), and I haven't added any aftermarket goodies yet.
To me it feels like the saw vibrates too much. I have it sitting on the concrete slab of my shop floor. The lower wheel / driven pulley didn't appear to be out of balance with the belt off (i.e. I could spin the wheel and it would stop at a different point each time). At first I thought it might be the included "Platinum Pro" blade (it flutters enough to buzz against the rear blade guard every 3-4 seconds unless you ratchet the tension way up), but taking it off doesn't seem to make an appreciable difference. It definitely doesn't pass the Nickel Test - starting, stopping, or running; the longest I could get it to stand was maybe three seconds, and that was rare. It has some fit & finish problems, but those aren't as worrisome as the vibration, particularly since I am planning to add a riser block.
So, do any of you guys have a 28-475X that can pass the Nickel Test? Is it just wishful thinking on my part to believe that it should? What is the normal amount of vibration for the 28-475X (or the Powermatic 14" for that matter)?
I've got the pulleys lined up pretty well, and the saw came with a notched V-belt. Would switching to a link belt help at all?
TIA for the replies.
Chop
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Have you tried running the saw without a blade? That will indicate in which direction you need to go.
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Removing the blade doesn't appear to make an appreciable difference in the amount of vibration.
Chop
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Good, then it has to be the bottom wheel, motor, or belt. Can you loosen the motor so that you can apply manual tension on the belt, turn on the motor to get the saw up to speed and then release tension on the belt to see if the bottom wheel is the problem? If the vibration goes away when the belt is too loose to turn the bottom wheel, the belt is probably the problem. If the belt stops but the bottom wheel continues to spin with vibration, the bottom wheel is probably the culprit.
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Is it sitting firmly in place? Can you drive a wedge under any of the corners?
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wrote:

I do.
Will your saw pass the test with the motor driving the lower wheel and no blade? Is the saw sitting on all four feet?

Not at all, expect it!

How's your belt tension? You might have a stiff, new belt that could be undertensioned and thumping around. If you get the vibration with no blade, a link belt may help. Do you have a link belt on another machine that you can borrow?
My last two new machines were provided with extremely stiff belts. Even my DJ-20 took a 2-3 hours of use to smooth out. The belts seemed like they'd out last me, but after a bit they soften up, and they will take a set if the machine isn't used for a while.
FWIW, I run almost all blades a 1/2 step or so tighter than the scale says. For example, I run a 1/4" blade halfway between the 1/4" and the 3/8" mark.
Barry
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Leon: I think I understand your procedure, but with my luck moving that motor around while it's running would get me a trip to the ER to explain why my fingers aren't pointing the right direction. Is there another way to isolate the lower wheel as a source of vibration. Maybe just run the motor without the belt attached and see if the vibration goes away? Either way, I'm loathe to take that motor loose after having gotten the pulleys aligned just right.
Edwin: All four corners of the stand are sitting on the concrete. There is a slight amount of play when I try to rock the frame back and forth, but that appears to be the sheet metal of the stand flexing a little. I'll see if I can get something thin under the corners just to be sure.
Barry: Thanks for letting me know my expectations are justified. I don't mind going to Delta now if I can't get the vibration fixed. To answer your questions, I can't get it to pass the Nickel Test with the blade off and the belt on (i.e. just the motor driving the lower wheel). I assembled the saw on the concrete slab to make sure the bottom of the base was flat and to make was stable as possible to test for vibration. I have the belt tensioned so that it deflects about 1/4" when I push in on it halfway between the pulleys (per the manual). I could probably cannibalize enough link belt off of my drill press to see if switching to the link belt would significantly reduce the vibration.
Thanks for the input, guys. Keep it coming.
Chop
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I am glad you recognize that you need to be careful and I do understand your not wanting to readjust everything. You might try removing the belt and spinning the lower wheel by hand but you may not be able to get the rpm's up high enough. Maybe wrap some small rope around the bottom wheel pulley and giving it a pull like starting a old lawn mower.
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This isn't bay area Dave is it Mike
wrote:

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Nope. Different Dave (Dave Ballard, actually). I used to post under woodworker [at] the [dash] ballards.us before FreeAgent blew up on me and I switched to Gmail/Google Groups. Not that it's been a big improvement.
Chop (aka Dave, former FreeAgent advocate)
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:19:43 -0800, Mike M

I don't think so, but I'd be expecting him to chime in right about now...
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I completely fixed the vibration in my Delta BS by replacing it with a Powermatic 14. Seriously. Delta couldn't fix the problem, so I got a full refund. The Powermatic is as smooth as the proverbial sewing machine. And more features to boot.
Dave
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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I find that to be an odd expression. My wife has a sewing machine (Bernina) that costs than my cabinet saw, and it sounds like a soft baby jackhammer. It doesn't make so much noise as it transmits a low-frequency thumping into the floor joists.
It's a fine machine but "Smooth" is just not the word I would use to describe it.
Come to think of it maybe I'll have her "nickel-test" it.
-Steve
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==============================Lol...My wife has 4 sewing machines..and like your wife one is a Bernina ....and that sucker cost me close to $4,000 Plus I had to spring for a Laptop computer so she could program the damn thing...
IS her sewing machine smooth running...? damn if I know I never used one in my life.... and with her around the house I never plan on learning ...
However I am now in the market to replace my original 30+ year old Bandsaw That I bought from (sears...lol) Maybe I should just raise my budget at least up to the price I had to pay for the laptop computer
Bob Griffiths
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Perhaps due to your experience you find it an "odd" expression, but it is a fairly common expression, none the less. Did you watch the Ellen Degeneres stand up routine where she mocked the expression "packed tight as sardines"? She made quite a case for changing that to "packed tight as pickles". (You had to see her routine to appreciate the humor)
Dave
Stephen M wrote:

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People say all sorts of things. Some people say the same thing over and over and it becomes common to them. But it is not common unless a lot of people use the expression.
I've heard smooth as (a lot of things including a baby's butt), but I have never heard smooth as a sewing machine. Course I haven't heard everything but I don't lead a sheltered life. I even heard sweat like a pig the other day which is not common, doesn't make sense, and should be sweat like a race horse. Smooth as a sewing machine doesn't make sense either; ask anyone who uses a sewing machine. It is not a common expression, no matter what you think. It is a Stupid expression, however.
David wrote:

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Funny how different we are. I've heard that expression since I was a little kid. You might even Google it, George. Your opinion has been duly noted.
Dave
George E. Cawthon wrote:

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Here's just one for your edification, George:
http://www.epinions.com/content_26161811076
George E. Cawthon wrote:

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Yeah, that's cool. "Purrs like a sewing machine" just doesn't have the feel of "purrs like a kitten" does it?
David wrote:

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How about, "purrs like a diesel engine at 1100 RPM" That has a nice ring to it.
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