New agenda at TOH? Norm teaching basics?

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What is happening at the PBS stations? Maybe they lost all their viewers and decided they have to get back on track.
I turned on NYW and Norm did a whole show on router basics. Different types, bit profiles, how to use them. Next week is going to be on the use of a router table.
When TOH came on, I was stunned that they are actually going to work on a rehab of - - - - - - - an old house! How will we keep up with the latest fully automated appliances and personal zoned heating and cooling systems? What if I have $750.000 and need guidance as to what hand carved marble vanity and gilded faucets to buy? It looks like they may be trying to educate the average homeowner and will leave us wealthy yuppies to fend for ourselves to design a kitchen with ebony cabinets.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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Think of it as the "wreck for the hoi polloi"(sp?). Every now and then someone forgets to DAGS before asking whether they want a left tilt or a right. Or, you've been watching too much TV? (insert smiley-winking-face emoticon here) Tom
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tom wrote:

At least you guys still have these shows. NYW is still nonexistent around here and TOH can be caught on a fuzzy channel. If I'm lucky. About all they show is Ask This Old House.
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Mark and Kim Smith wrote:

I hate to say this, but in the Detroit area, I can watch the Detroit PBS or the Flint PBS, and NYW is on different schedules, showing different episodes the same week.
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Answer: satellite.

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Political correctness. Not to worry, though, they're still going to spend 200K even with donated materials so that a "middle-class" family can afford their 250 grand house.
Wishing I were middle-class so I could afford a 250 K house....
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On 2/12/2006 7:28 AM George mumbled something about the following:

I'm middle-class, and I can't afford a 250k house. Well, I can't afford it and still be able to do all the OTHER things I like/want to do. Everyone I know who has 250k house around here who is in my income class, struggle to find the money to enjoy doing half the things I enjoy doing. For me, 5 acres of land and a doublewide trailer, is perfectly fine. I have a total of about $85,000 invested in the property, the trailer, the shed/workshop, etc., refinanced a couple of months ago to shorten my term and knock some points off, and to pay off a few other bills, and now only have 10 years left to pay instead of 17 and pay about the same per month as I did before.
Now, I do plan on building my retirement home in about 10 years (right now thinking about a geodesic), but it's all going to be paid for cash. I have no intentions of having anything but basic bills (elec, water, cable, internet, etc) to pay when I retire in 15 years.
--
Odinn
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Here in Madison WI, all we have to do is stay here a few more years, and we'll have that 250k house. :-) Whether we like it or not.
What's frustrating me most about Norm these days is the move to expensive machinery. For that shop clock, he says, "I'll just cut this cove on my molder-shaping machine here" and just runs it through his molder. SWMBO and I both bust out laughing. Sure! Just fire up the ol' shaper-molder and away we go!
Then he says "If you don't have a molder of your very own, you can go to your lumber yard and probably find something pretty darn close". No mention of using the table saw to cut any molding.
Sigh. I really like his old stuff and I still get something out of his current shows, but it ain't like it yoosta bee. Funny how often I say that these days.
He's been around only since 88? I could have sworn it was longer than that.
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He was around on TOH long before 1988. Perhaps that is what you remember.
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Same in Tucson. The tax assessor couldn't be happier.

Sheese. I could probably afford some of the machinery... it's the lumber I can't afford. "I'll just glue up these six 12" wide planks of sixteen-quarter, quarter-sawn Brazilan mahogany to make our table top."

Yeah, I'll just run down to Home Depot and pick up some black walnut moulding.

Isn't it [g]
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Sure you can. Buy a $60,000 house and wait 25 years. Worked for me.
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On 2/12/2006 12:03 PM Edwin Pawlowski mumbled something about the following:

Well, I can't afford to purchase a house that is already at 250k :)
--
Odinn
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wrote:

Heck, around here you can't own a postage stamp-sized lot that costs under $250k. Average-sized homes go for over $500k and in some local areas, for over $750k.
When we bought our house, it was worth less than $250k. Now, our neighbor, with a smaller house and less land, recently sold his for close to a million.
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On 2/13/2006 1:57 PM Brian Henderson mumbled something about the following:

That's why I live 50 miles out from such an area. My house payments and taxes are so much less, that the extra fuel I spend driving to work is less than 1/10 the savings. By having a $100k mortgage (doublewide trailer and 5 acres of land) instead of a $250k or better mortgage, I can afford to own a fairly new pickemup, a new car, a new Harley. It allows me to take off almost any weekend and go to a NASCAR race. It allows me to luxury of spending 3 weeks riding the Harley all over the country, putting 7500 miles on it in 24 days (http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/Sturgis2005 ).
--
Odinn
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Odinn wrote:

But you own a home that depreciates...
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B a r r y said:

Well, if you've seen the crap they throw up in the metro area that he is avoiding (I live there), you would realize that his land is the major investment. The cracker box "investment" house won't last much more than 20 years, or just till it's about paid off. And the remaining 1/6 acre lot is worthless. (To me, anyway...) It's a banker/broker's wet dream. I'm with Odinn on this one...
Greg G.
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"Greg G." wrote in message

You just have to pick your areas. Sometimes you get hit on both ends ... the "lot/land value" on my tax appraisal is increasing by about 10%/year, while the "improvements" remain fairly constant.
We are paying $63sf + for "teardowns" on 50' x 100' lots in the area I am currently building in ... and that's probably gone up in the last 30 minutes. :(
--
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Greg G. wrote:

Agreed about the land. No question!

Wanna' make a bet?
"Construction quality today" has been a hot topic for what, 100 years?
If the house meets code, even though it will require repairs, the value will most likely at least keep up with inflation. A mobile home is guaranteed to depreciate AND require repairs.
Barry
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B a r r y said:

If I had only owned 30 acres of farmland in Roswell... Growing up, no one wanted it - now it's Yuppie Land.

Well, you clipped off the "To me, anyway" part. In an era when land is priced at millions per square foot in, oh, say Manhattan, it's obviously not worthless to someone. But I place no value on it, and sure as heck don't want to live there.

Ahh.. but. the mobile home only cost a few thousand dollars. It is pretty much a given that it is disposable. As for maintenance, well, it's pretty basic stuff. In 20 years, that plot of land will be worth far more than the deteriorating McMansion - even though they cost the same amount originally.
Perhaps I'm jaded due to the poor quality of new construction here. I've lived in other states where the quality of work was far superior. I think it's just a case of Atlanta having been a boom housing market, and it attracted a lot of carpetbagging, skank developers like Ryland.
We barely have building codes here, compared to the north, and the inspectors are willing to overlook just about anything - for a price. Maintenance on the unsupervised beaner built $400k crap put here is already huge. A large development nearby, less than three years old, is already having roofs replaced and structural problems. Not to mention the erosion and flooding problems due to the clear cutting and terracing of the natural roll of the landscape. They are truly abominations.
Heck, we live in a 15 year old house that is in need of constant repair due to the low quality work and the total lack of code enforcement during it's construction.
Yea, it's a McMansion. I didn't buy it, the other half did, before her husband died. I'm the idiot who ended up with the maintenance nightmares. I begged her to sell it right after we met, 'cause I could see the light at the end of the tunnel - it was the oncoming 120 ton locomotive of major repairs.
No flashing, no drip edges, improper roof framing on the stupid bows and other such pointless "curb appeal" flash, leaving chipboard as the sole structural member, framing buried under grade and infested with termites, etc, etc. Only the electrical and plumbing are even close to code. Even the HVAC is fubar'd. We've replaced doors, windows, siding, roof, structural components in much of the roofing and wall framing. The builder must not have been able to read a blueprint, because I can't imagine ANY architect designing something the way this was built. They didn't even manage to get the studs on center properly. The walls wave in and out so badly that the lap siding had to be face nailed to keep the gaps from showing between overlaps. The floors are sinking, uneven and squeak horrifically in the winter. There were 3" of shingles hanging over all the edges, presumably to supplant the nonexistant flashing and drip edges. It goes on and on. A collection of the cheapest "builder special" crap available, thrown up by the cheapest unskilled and untrained labor they could find.
I want to build my own new home, on a large plot of conservation land, but ended up rebuilding this turd instead. Just to keep ahead of the rot, decay and deterioration so we can sell it. Neither my father's home, nor my first house, have needed any of this bullshit, and they are far, far older.
I could itemize much more here, but the point is that given a choice between a plot of land, and a 1/6 acre corporate built McMansion - the McMansion buyer is just a fuel screw for Greedy Corporate America.
Unwittingly, Like Me.
Greg G.
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Greg G. wrote:

I think we're comparing apples to oranges. I don't remember ever comparing building and mobile home values to unimproved land values.
Compare the actual resale values of ten year old mobile homes to ten year old fixed homes, ANY ten year old home, on a lot of land of identical value. If you like, feel free to find the most cherry mobile home you can and the worst constructed 10 year old home you can, as long as it can legally be occupied.
How's the resale value, vs. the new cost, expressed as a percentage, look now?
The mobile home will almost always be less than 100% of it's value ten years ago. The _house_, even if it's manufactured somewhere else, but finished on site, will nearly always be more than 100% of it's value ten years ago. If by chance, the mobile home is actually worth the same or more than the purchase price 10 years ago (meaning a really strong local real estate market), I'll bet the house has appreciated exponentially.
There's at least 50 years of data backing my point up in any real estate, tax collector, or property appraiser's office. Just the way the two items are treated differently by money lenders should give you at least SOME clue. <G>
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