New 24x40 shop

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Is it practical to place all the major dust making machines around the dust collector? Like the wagon trains of old, when attacked.
Seems like all the vertical DC pipes would get in the way, if spread out. A lower level would be great, but... Last working area was a car port, so no DC. The constraints of the car port made a less then optimal layout.
I'm in the middle east for another 18 mo. (so ready to get back to TX) So have PLENTY of time. SHMBO gave my 1st generation tools to her brother and cousin last year. Now has built my new shop, and left me the hard task of filling it. <grin> Not sure where to start on the lay out.
Thanks for your help
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Rick Samuel wrote:

As a one man gang, I like to set up my work space "kitchen style", thinking in triangles and squares based on work flow over DC location.
For instance, my dimensioning area includes the table saw, jointer, planer, and band saw. I keep a hand saw and cordless circular saw near the stock rack for breaking down boards. The rack area flows to the dimensioning area. My hand work / assembly area includes my bench, easy access to hand planes, chisels, etc... as well as the 12" disc sander. The sharpening station is near the hand tools. The lathe I rarely use is on the other side of the sharpening station.
The router table / shaper, drum sander, mortiser, miter saw, etc... can be on wheels or located anywhere. They usually get taken them out, used for an extended period of time for specific tasks, and put back. I have extra DC ports and quick-connect hoses in the area where I normally use these.
That said, I'd suggest thinking through your personal work flows and setting up based on that. The answer to the DC location may or may not change, but your flow is much more important than a few feet of pipe or an extra horse on the DC. Once I arrived at this realization, my work became much more efficient and enjoyable. My first shop setup was based on DC location, and was very different and less efficient.
Don't forget a remote for the DC! I'd also recommend a quad (vs. duplex) for each 120V power point and some basic compressed air plumbing.
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:31:10 +0300, "Rick Samuel"

As much as practical, but I think your primary focus should be on the functional layout. Think operations or processes and do your layout that way. If you're going to start with rough lumber, you need to layout the flow of your initial processing (cross cut, edge joint, rip, face joint, plane) then go to the secondary processes (glue up, sand, final sizing, shaping, final component sanding, assembly, finish)
It is a lot easier to move chips and dust then it is to move stock around.
Additionally, once you have the layout, the companies that are big in dust collection will help with the layout, routing, and sizing of equipment and plumbing to get your dust collection job done properly, and as much as possible, unobtrusively.

I have mine (future) on cad, however, I found it easier to make little cut paper scale models of the machines and the required feed and workaround zones and do the layouts by pushing them around manually

Good size shop, good luck with the project.
Frank

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"Frank Boettcher" wrote:

Ah yes, "paper doll time".
Still a very effective way of doing plant layouts.
Starting a shop layout from scratch, give your utilities (electric & air), some consideration.
It's a lot easier to install them in an empty facility.
Lew
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:55:22 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Yeah, if you are a daily cad user putting in lots of time in the software, you can beat that method, but for someone like me who has full autocad but uses it infrequently, the "paper dolls" method is the fastest way.
Frank

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"Frank Boettcher" wrote:

My days of making an investment in learning new software are fewer and fewer.
Many years ago, I quit doing control systems designs.
My kid could do them twice as fast at half the price.
Time to redirect my efforts into more profitable areas.
As a result, keep a graph pad handy for "paper doll designs".
Something that once learned is not soon forgotten.
Lew
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"hello world."
'i'm sorry, dave, i can't do that now."
Tom Watson tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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I am just going to throw this out here. It is not my idea. It was showcased on one of those woodworking/home shows.
What they did was to build a nice, big building for the wood whop. But they needed to be able to vacxate the building and move elsewhere as of some point in the future. They needed to leave the building nice and clean when they left.
Their solution was to install multiple portable dust collectors around the shop. Almost everything was mounted on wheels, including the dust collectors. The shows that I saw showed them using these portable dust collectors. Everything worked fine.
My problem with it is that this does seem a little spendy. It also takes up space. And will any small portable dust collector handle the output of a big planing job? Noise problems?
It was quick and fast though, in terms of setup. No pipes to install.
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Lee Michaels wrote:

And people make fun of MY typos! <G>
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"B A R R Y" wrote

I have a legitimate excuse! Nooo...., I don't think that will work in this group.
I had a friend who published a small book. It had some typos in it. He knew it and did NOT want to be bothered by people sending him memos on these typos.
Soooo...., He wrote a big introduction that declared, THERE ARE NO TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS IN THIS BOOK! He went on to explain that every thing in that book was intentional and that the errors were included as a service to those nanny types who love to find and report errors. By providing this joy to them intentionally, he relieved them of the responsibility to report said errors.
He received almost no typo messages.
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Best DC set up I've seen belongs to a friend who has a large shop with a full basement. Both DC and air compressor are in the basement, piped into the first floor shop area. Probably 90% of his stationary tools are just that, hooked into PVC DWV pipe that comes through the floor. Very quiet with that four bagger downstairs, and very efficient because it is sucking down.
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Charlie Self wrote:

Awesome! Another benefit is that the floor probably is probably wood vs. concrete, so it's nice to walk on.
On the other hand, my shop _is_ the basement...
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A lot of that going around. Yeah, his floor is plywood, on 12" centers.
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Rick Samuel wrote:

There was a guy in the "tools and shops" issue of FWW a few years back that did essentially this. His jointer/tablesaw/planer/drill press/bandsaw/sander/chopsaw/router were all integrated into an "island" in the middle of his shop, with custom bases for each unit such that the working height of each one was identical. There was a cyclone sitting in the middle of the whole thing, with a custom dust bin on full-extension drawer slides to make removing the dust easy.
That said, I'm not sure why you think vertical pipes would get in the way. Most shops I've seen are set up this way. For the table saw put the vertical pipe at the back right corner...that will almost never cause problems.
Maybe a hybrid aproach? Vertical drops that come down and split to serve multiple machines?
Chris
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I would point out that "vertical" drops better be used on a DC that is capable of lifting up heavy shaving,etc.
I have a 3HP DC with 3800 CFM. My ceiling is 12'8" in height and I doubt my DC could ever lift the shaving coming from my 15" planer or my 8" jointer. Fine dust, maybe... heavy shaving I don't think so.
I have seen this vertical arrangement in several photos but I really question how well a DC handle that situation.
My situation is a "cluster" method and I'm not happy with it but it does make it easier to collect the dust.
I'm looking at another version some day...
I tried the "all" machines on the wall method and that does work, but you walk yourself silly.
I'm still "looking" for the best method.....
Chris Friesen wrote:

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The key to minimizing that is to keep the planer by the jointer, the table saw by the chop saw and so on. That way you will mostly be walking from one station to the next one when milling stock.
A rolling table about the same height as the jointer and planer bed helps a lot too.
--
FF


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That was issue no. 181 and there is(was) a video on the web site as well.
The shop is the same size as the OPs.
Also FWIW there was a workbench that inspired my current one.
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
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wrote:

If you place them along the walls then the ducting and power cords can run up the walls, keeping them pretty much out of the way. And that leaves the central area open for ad hoc use, or a central workbench that can be accessed form all sides.
Downside is that it will use more ducting than the way you described.
--
FF


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*snip*

Think about how and where you're going to store everything. You need various sizes and forms of storage. It's usually not convienent to store nuts and bolts in the same drawer as your wrenches and pliers. If you store various size boards together, the big ones will be on the top and the small ones will fall. (This is one of the problems in my shop I'm working to fix...)
Watch out for the curse of flat surfaces.
Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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You asked questions? I thought, from the subject, you were about to gloat. That's what I'd do if I had a 24x40 shop.
You suck! ;-)
Jim Stuyck
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